Author Topic: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun  (Read 9851 times)

Offline smart dog

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Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« on: February 19, 2012, 04:35:02 AM »
Hi Folks,
Just thought you might like to see photos of a sideplate that I cast and chiseled from silver.  I will use it on an English fowling gun I am building that started as a (Chamber's?) kit produced by Ron Ehlert.  The kit's original owner did some work on the kit and then it was sold to me.  I did not like the solid brass sideplate that was inlet so I filled the exisiting inlet with a piece of English walnut and then designed a silver sideplat that covers all the seams.  I was inspired by a plate from a James Freeman gun pictured in Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790".  I redesigned it to fit my space and then made it.  It came out pretty well.  Can you find the "P" representing my last name?

Enjoy, 

dave

The original plate.

The wood inlay.

The silver replacement.
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

4ster

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2012, 04:42:01 AM »
I can't find the "P" but the sideplate is stunning.  WOW!

I'm working on a plain brass sideplate now for a pistol and wondering what to do to spruce it up.  Makes me want to just throw in the towel now.

Steve

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 04:44:32 AM »
Very nice. Can you give some details of your design, casting and chiseling process?

Offline FALout

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 05:37:30 AM »
That is one outstanding sideplate.  Doubt anyone could see the repair, would be fixated on that sideplate!
Bob

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2012, 05:51:09 AM »
@!*%, that is fine! You are one Smart Dog!
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Offline Rolf

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2012, 02:04:16 PM »
That silver work is fantastic!!!!!!!!!! What tools did you use for the chiseling?

Best regards

Rolf

Online wattlebuster

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 05:03:37 PM »
Now I know I know nothing about building flintlocks. Beautiful work sir ;D
Nothing beats the feel of a handmade southern iron mounted flintlock on a cold frosty morning

The other DWS

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 06:36:10 PM »
Dave, that is an exceptional piece of silver crafting, now for the triggerguard, buttplate, and RR thimbles, eh?

It looks to me like you are well on your way to the Best of Show Award

Offline gusd

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 07:21:49 PM »

Dave,
Incredible work!!!
The "P" is about 1/2 way between lock bolts on bottom , wood shows as a"P"

Gus

The other DWS

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 07:26:02 PM »
subtle, downright surreptitious ;D

Offline Jim Chambers

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 08:03:14 PM »
Absolutely wonderful work.  We love to see guys take one of our kits and use it as a blank canvas and add their own special art work.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 10:33:17 PM »
Thank you all for the comments and interest,
I made the plate from fine silver, which chisels very easily but you have to be careful to preserve the crisp edges.  I cast it in 3 parts because the large plate was beyond the capacity of my small set up.  I carved models from green carving wax and then used the Delft clay casting method.  It essentially is sand casting using clay.  I then cleaned up the edges with needle and escapement files, and a jeweler's saw.  Next, I glued the pieces to wood with Elmer's wood glue to mount them in my engraving ball, and chiseled in the detail.  I used round-bottomed and flat die sinker's chisels with a chasing hammer.  I also ground large and small round-bottomed, a tiny flat, and 90 degree square gravers for my Lindsay Airgraver.  I more or less, used the tools like wood chisels.  I then fitted the 3 pieces together and soldered them with low-temp silver solder.  All the joints are hidden in the design.  For smoothing and polishing, I mounted diamond burrs and small stones normally used in a Dremel, in a needle file handle.  Using mineral oil as a lubricant, I rubbed the metal smooth with the burrs and stones.  Finally, I made different sized pencil sticks, and dipped them in oil, then pumice stone, and rubbed the metal.  I repeated that process using rottenstone.  After inletting and finishing the gun, I will polish the side plate with oil and aluminum oxide powder.  It was a challenge to say the least but a lot of fun, and I learned a great deal.  Now I need to make the wrist escutcheon.  That will be fun.  The rest of the mounts on the gun will be engraved steel.   

dave
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mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 05:09:19 PM »
I love the way you were able to hide the edges of the old inlet. Fine work very very nice.

Lee Slikkers

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 05:16:32 PM »
Dave, what a spectacular addition to your gun!  I am really fascinated by the technique/process of casting and carving, do you happen to have any reference or resource that could point me in the right direction to get some more info and understanding of the process?  Many thanks!

Lee

(Edited: I also just noticed you patched the original inletting...did you inlet this Silver replacement piece or is it a "surface" mount?...I cannot tell from the angle of the pics)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 05:31:03 PM by Lee Slikkers »

Bill

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 05:21:30 PM »
Absolutely beautiful! Your fine work completely hides the wood patch. Still trying to visualise the "P" where you descibed it.
Can't wait to see photos of the rest of this rifle.

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 06:13:56 PM »
Dave,

I like the overall shape and balance of the sideplate.  I've admired the original you based this work on as well.  Fantastic stuff.  How did the wax carve?  I've alway made masters from polyurethane foam modeling board.  It works well, but maybe there is something better.

Jim

Offline smart dog

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 08:42:22 PM »
Hi,
Thanks again for the comments and interest.  Lee, I did not use any reference book.  I tend to decide on a project and then jump in figuring out how to do the job along the way.  However, I suspect that Ray Cover's E-book on sculpting metal for sale on www.handengravingforum.com might be a good resource.  The plate will be inlet.  I am not intimidated by the inletting, particularly after making a highly decorated early 17th century fowling gun, photos of which I posted here a while back.  The "P" is formed by the piercing midway between the bolt heads.  It is part of the "negative" space.  Paying attention to that space is fundamental to good design, something that I learned from my wife Gail, who died earlier this month. The balance that Jim Kibler mentioned is largely due to her influence on me.  I sorely miss her advice and knowledge. 

Jim, I've not tried foam so cannot compare it with green carving wax.  The wax carves and holds details well.  It is sufficiently hard to withstand being packed in clay and I can reuse the masters.  It is easy to add wax using heat and repair mistakes.  That said, it is intended for lost wax or investment casting where the wax is burned out.  However, there does not seem to be any casting process or material that can equal the precision and crispness of chiseling. I guess cast-in engraving just does not compare with fresh cutting.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 11:09:03 PM »
Dave i am sorry for your loss. Your comments, insights and methods as well as the products of them are a wonderful part of ALR. Thanks for sharing with us.
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Offline JTR

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 01:40:21 AM »
I'm also sorry to hear of your loss Dave... Just to add a note to the carving wax, it comes in many degrees of hardness. The hardest can be carved with very intricate details, and the softest, if warmed a bit, actually formed with your fingers. I made a silver sheathed dagger once, and used several lost wax castings as part of the embellishment.

John
John Robbins

Offline smart dog

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 08:52:55 PM »
Hi Tim,
Thank you!  There are so many, including yourself, who make this site the most valuable muzzleloading gun resource on the internet.  It is also my gunmaking craft and this website that are helping me to cope with Gail's death.  It is wonderful therapy. 

John,
Thank you also.  The green carving wax I use is the hardest sold by Rio Grande and it holds details well. 

Thanks again,

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Silver sideplate for English sporting gun
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 11:50:10 PM »
I'm very sorry to hear about your wife Dave. You have been an inspiration to me many times here on the ALR and that other site. My prayers go out to you and your family my friend. 
Joel Hall