Dbl. Brrl. Perc. Maker?

[t.caster]

Hi, I just picked up an old dbl back action 16 ga. at a local auction. 33" long barrels are damascus and the hooks and standing breech are an excellent tight fit. I grabbed it mainly for the parts because the locks are missing and the wrist was broken and repairs look to be 100 yrs old. I thought it looked English but the top rib is marked:
------E-D BY J.LEDUE & CO.  NEW ORLEANS
The name might be LADUE also.
I don't know if they are the builders or importers back in the day.

Anyone have any information? THANKS
I can post pics if needed.

[Longknife]

Tom, if its of European build there will be proof marks on the bottom of the barrels. Of course I suppose someone could have built it here with a pair of european barrels?....Ed

[Longknife]

Tom,  Could that be a T. Ledue?  I did a search and found an 1861 New Orleans city Directory that lists a T.Ledue as a GUNSMITH....I wonder if the first word on the barrel is MARKETED? I  lean toward this gun being an imported piece since it was just too time consuming to build a SXS when the Eropean built guns  could be had at such reasonable prices.... ...Ed

  http://files.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/history/directory/1861l.txt

[t.caster]

Yes it has two proof marks on the bottom of each barrel.

The first initial could be a T. What I thought was a J hook could be a dent, but I don't see a cross bar on the T.
I am now sure the first word is IMPORTED after futher inspection.
Man! Did everyone in N.O. back then start there name with La or Le! That's a LONG list of names!

BTW, "Seen it right off" Both brrls. had a load of powder and shot with felt wads over both. The powder was very dry.  Looks like the original nipples and they were plugged pretty good, and locks are missing.....I'm thinking the charges were in there a LONG LONG time.

[Longknife]

IMPORTED!!!!of course!!!!!!!!! Now you can ID the Country here!!!

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf

[t.caster]

Ed, you are a goldmine of good info! THANKS!
The proofs are Birmingham 1868-1925, the crossed arrows with a crown on top and letters B  P  & C. The definitive black powder proof for shotguns!
Someday I would like to marry these parts up to a new piece of wood.

[mr. no gold]

Tom, New Orleans guns are primo collectibles. You might want to think twice about stripping the parts from the old wood and going to an old/new remake. For the sake of the gun, it would make just as much sense to consider mending and restoring the stock where needed and finding a set of locks for it. The missing parts are out there, it just takes some time to hunt them down. You would end up with a neat old double gun with a down River history, even though it is an imported gun. The N.O. markings make it such. Not sure that I have ever seen a fully American made shotgun from the 1800s even though some were surely made here.
Dick

[Majorjoel]

Ya Tom, Dick knows his stuff when it comes to what is in demand on the collectables market! New Orlean's and St. Louis guns are both real popular and seem to out shine a lot of arms from earlier periods......Go figure! When you mentioned your double had damascus barrels I knew right away they had to come out of Europe somewhere. If you decide to do a restore on your piece, let me know. I seem to have a few original SxS locks laying around here. And a few lock plates as well. Take care my friend.

[oakridge]

I have seen a number of New Orleans marked guns. Almost all of the shotguns were imports. Some pistols and rifles were imports and some locally made.

[Curt J]

Not all shotguns with English/European proofs on the barrels are straight imports. There were a number of upper-end shotgun makers in the USA who imported barrels and built the rest.  This could well be one of them.

[eddillon]

IMHO, back action locks were not usually found on the "upper end" guns.

[Feltwad]

Tom 
Forget about a restock ,restoration can be done so has to contain its original character ,back action locks should be more easy than side percussion locks too find.
Would like to see an image of the finished job in the future.
Feltwad

[Bob Roller]

I have seen back action locks on presentation grade rifles,both muzzle and breech loading.
Almost any copy of the Double Gun and Single Shot Rifle Journal has fine color pictures of them.

Bob Roller

[Curt J]

Absolutely right Bob.  The notion that back-action locks are somehow inferior is a misconception.  Some of the finest makers, both here and in Europe, used them.  There are some applications, especially on heavy barreled guns, where they were the more logical choice.

[Dphariss]

The use of back action locks is more determined by the style/design of the firearm than the quality of the lock or the price of the gun.

Many high end English cartridge Double Rifles built with the  "Jones" (?) underlever action used back action locks since nothing else would work, not because the makers had a choice. As soon as the top lever designs were perfected the BA lock was virtually dead at least in the best grade guns and rifles. The advent of the "boxlock" design killed the sidelock in the lower grade guns shortly thereafter. Part of this was due to improvements in metallurgy as well. Better steels and heat treat made a lighter action feasible without fear of the barrels "coming off the face" with high breech thrust cartridges. The Jones was very strong, but was heavy and slow to operate.

Dan

[Feltwad]

The back action lock has we see in the pin fire and early breechloader was the tpye of lock of the percussion period by Lovell with the 1836 pattent ,back action locks were used on sporting guns of the late flint and early percussion.the pinfire and the early centre fire not only had back action but also side locks .
Feltwad

A Back Action Lock 1810


The same lock with a detachable nose


 Patent Back Action Locks