Author Topic: Moravian gun (Read 9071 times)

Robby · « **on:** April 02, 2012, 07:54:21 PM »

Well, this is my interpretation of an Albrecht type Moravian gun. My first attempt at aging, more a well used, but taken care of gun. Signature is my name, of Germanic Saxon origin, translated to modern English, then modern German.
Have at it boys, or in the words of Rich, "honest critiques would be appreciated"!

No apologies for the lousy photography.

Robby

LRB · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2012, 08:21:43 PM »

Excellent Robby. Nice work.

heinz · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:24:15 PM »

Robby, nice looking rifle. I like the finish and the carving choices but I am no expert on the Christian Springs shop so I will pass on how it fits the school but I like the work.

Bennypapa · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:30:09 PM »

That is a beautiful rifle.

rich pierce · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:18:57 PM »

Hi, there's lots to like there if it represents a 1770's rifle in the Lancaster tradition. Albrecht did his earliest work at Christians Spring but moved to Lititiz in Lancaster county where he produced at least one rifle very much in the style of Dickert's earliest Lancaster rifles. The guard, buttplate, sideplate and general architecture fit a 1770's Lancaster rifle better than a Christians Spring rifle. I do see the Albrecht signature carving on the sliding patchbox lid, and it looks good. The carving is attractive and looks well executed in the Dickert style. I think the buttstock architeture or slant evokes the Albrecht-attributed (or is it signed?) rifle in the Moravian Gunmakers book, the one with the 2-tailed fox or dog carved behind the patchbox, but as I recall that rifle had a slight step to the wrist and a little more mass and less curvature to the buttplate and consequently had an earlier feel. The signature on the barrel of this build is bold and nicely executed.

Eric Kettenburg · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:26:44 PM »

Well Robby since you are inviting some critique I'll offer some thoughts. It does look like you've got a whole lot right when it comes to refinement of the stock and wood removal. Very nice to see. Everything looks well executed. The only things that are immediately jumping out at me are (1) for some reason I get a gut reaction that the forearm seems a bit short. I am specifically referring to the area between the lock panel fore and the entry pipe. This is purely an opinion thing, there's nothing "wrong" with it and of course you'll find this all over the map as pertaining to original rifles. I just "feel" like I would like to see maybe an extra inch of length there. It's kind of a first reaction thing on my part. Others may not feel the same. (2) I would not call this a Christian's Spring rifle, but of course this is just getting hung up on terminology and historical basis. I realize it's interpretational and not a copy, but frankly I have an easier time seeing it as an interpretation of a Lancaster rifle than a Christian's Spring rifle. (3) I'd like to see lower, more traditional sights on a traditionally styled rifle.

doulos · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:48:21 PM »

Nice....I really like the color. Tell us more about the rifle
barrel and caliber ,lock etc

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #7 on:** April 03, 2012, 12:00:00 AM »

Rich an Eric have covered any suggestions I would have. I like the rifle and especially the barrel treatment. If you need a place to hang it I might could help........

J. Talbert · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2012, 12:23:35 AM »

Nice overall, but architecturally seems a little later to me than the typical Christian's Spring gun. Specifically the angle formed by the buttplate face and the return would typically be closer to 90 degrees in earlier, Christian's Spring gun, with less rake to the toe. (perhaps the angle of the photos exaggerates this). An exception to this as far as the rake of the buttplate, is the first Andreas Albrecht rifle in the Moravian book. But it has a stepped wrist, which gives it an earlier overall appearance in the butt.
The angle of the wood box, which is also related to the buttplate, would evoke an earlier feel, in my opinion, if angled down somewhat as Jim Kibler described in a recent post about the positioning of patchboxes in general.http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=20874.msg197674#msg197674
Still a nice piece regardless!

Jeff

Robby · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2012, 01:39:27 AM »

I changed the title heading because it more truly reflects what I was looking a when I made this gun, which is the book "Moravian Gun Making". Any page numbers I might refer to would be for that book.
Thank you all for the responses, this is exactly what I was hoping for. It has a Davis lock, .62 cal., 41" long Getz barrel I purchased from Jim Kibler. The trigger guard, I sectioned about 1/2" out of the bow and brazed back together, as well as file off enough brass to make another guard, Makes me wonder what it was intended for originally. It and the butt plate were from castings. The wood is from a local tree I had milled up a few years ago. The rest of the parts I made.
Dinners on, I'll be back!
Robby

Vomitus · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2012, 02:10:14 AM »

Good,Now we can "roast" him while he's at dinner.LOL! I thought he might use my tried and true aging process that I posted last year but I guess not.

"Take 12 feet of rope precisely. Tie to rear of manure spreader and trigger guard of gun. In a large pasture start and engage tractor and drag around meadow making sure of good coverage.When assured of such, drive over gun with cleated tires of tractor. Works every time! Grin Keep any "browning" from spreader contents on gun 4 days,then neutralize with bovine urine mixed with Jack Daniels as they compliment each other. Should give it a 200 year look in just one try! Aw $#@*, you wanted it to look 250 years old? Speed up tractor 25%."
Tongue in cheek Robby.
I like your gun.

Don Getz · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2012, 02:12:18 AM »

I would rather see a darker finish, don't like that carmel color. I also don't like the angle of the buttplate, should be closer to 90 degrees, or less. Unlike Eric, I like the short forend, kind of makes the gun look more slender. Also think
it should have a "stepped" wrist, would make it a little more "Christians Spring"..........Don

Dennis Glazener · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2012, 02:25:26 AM »

Quote

don't like that carmel color

I am with Don on the color, it might just be the way the light hits it but especially in photos 2 and 3 there seems to be too much gold/yellow and to me it does not look correctly "aged". I have not seen that color on an antique rifle. Other than that it a great looking rifle. I like the barrel treatment but the barrel seems to have received much harsher treatment than the wood.
Dennis

Eric Smith · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2012, 02:36:10 AM »

I think I agree with E. K. The fore stock is a bit short for my eye, and my own preference would always be for a darker treatment of the wood, but this looks like a well made rifle with which great pains were taken to build. If you are unhappy with it, send it to me.

Ed Wenger · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2012, 05:19:55 AM »

Robby,

Nice job! Definitely more of a Lancaster look to me. My only "suggestion" would be that the wrist looks a little thick, which would be perfectly understandable if going for a Moravian style rifle...

I like the cheek molding, and think you did very well by the wrist carving and behind the cheek piece. At least from this distance, the carving looks pretty Moravian, and you gotta love those big 'ol stars! I think you did a great job with the aging, especially the lock. A well cared for antique look. Thanks for sharing your work.

Ed

Glenn · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2012, 05:24:39 AM »

That's a beautiful gun for sure. Real fine job you did.

Robby · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2012, 05:31:26 PM »

Thanks for the comments fellows!! Like i said before, I wasn't trying to make an antique, but make a gun that looked about twenty years or so old that was well used and well cared for. I was not trying to make a copy of anything but a rifle made in the Moravian community and influenced by those great makers. Eric, I too like low and tight sights on those original guns but I cannot see them well enough for good shooting. I finished this gun in December and with the mild winter have had plenty of opportunity to get a good feel for it. Its a great shooter, great barrel, and using the loading principles I learned here from Daryl and Leatherbelly, I can shoot all day with no wiping.
Some of the things I did, like the forestock were conscious decisions based on guns pictured on pages 51, 65, 103, and 131 in the 'Moravian Gun Making' book. The butt plate was modified and does look kind of Lancastrian. My thinking was that these guns were the root to what would become several different schools of architecture and this one would lean towards that direction, maybe I morphed it a bit too much. I used aqua fortis for the stain and rubbed it back in typical wear areas. It is much darker than the photographs show, I lightened them to show more detail, and in real life, it has a warm glow to it, that makes you want to pick it up and shoulder it. Though Albrecht was the primary influence while making this gun, almost every gun in that book has been an influence in what came to be the final product. I still have the bookmarks. Thank you all again for your thoughts, it is much appreciated.
Robby

FRJ · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2012, 01:31:06 AM »

I'm not smart enough to comment on its Historical correctness but I am smart enough to comment on its beauty. That is one beautiful rifle and you should be proud of your skill and craftsmanship!!!!!I am always awed by the skill you fellas show in crafting a new rifle. Job well done!!!! Frank

54ball · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2012, 05:57:12 AM »

I really like it.

The only thing is I do not understand the all damage to the barrel vs little to the stock. I may be ignoring the obvious, that it is a restock. Is that what you were aiming for?

Robby · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2012, 03:06:19 PM »

Thanks fellows! 54ball, There are more dings to the stock that don't show up, but you are correct, it does seem to have more scaring. Two factors come into play, one is that I pretty much didn't know what I was doing, and over did it.

In the end, its a judgment call isn't it. Another is, I was trying to mimic the dings of an old gun that I handled. It had scarring scattered around one localized area of the barrel that to me looked as though it may have been done by the way the gun was stored, or leant against, off and on. Thanks again!
Robby

Gaeckle · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2012, 08:10:29 PM »

Overall, I like the gun......I see that you took the edges off the barrel and have a few nicks to add to an overall look of age and that's a nice suttle touch that a lot forget about.

Yes, the front sight should be very small, almost a blip (I'm tryin' to figure out how those old fella's managed to see those little things), but that's really no spoiler.....

I know that you aged it, but I would think a little crud piled up into the corners of area's like the sideplate would be present and in other parts of the gun as well....but as I said, that's really a nice rifle and I like the peice.

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Author Topic: Moravian gun (Read 9071 times)

Bennypapa

Vomitus

FRJ

54ball