00 Buck Rifle

[TNVolunteerEngineer]

I just bought five pounds of 00 buck for reloading.   It occurred to me that this would make a nice small rifle caliber and you wouldn't have to worry about buying ML balls or casting bullets.   Hornady sells five pounds of these for about $19.  They are swaged, perfectly round and very uniform.   Does anyone make a barrel in this caliber?  The ball measures .330 so the bore would have to be .335 to .340.

[Macon Due]

Sir
 About how many balls are there in 5lbs.? Just wondering if it is cost effective?
Macon

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Should be 645 - .330 balls in 5 pounds

[Macon Due]

Thank you Sir.
Macon

[TNVolunteerEngineer]

I weighed a ball at 55 grains.  7000 gr/lb X 5 lb X 1/55 gr ball =  636 bullets.  At $19 per bag, that's $2.98 per hundred.  What does TOTW charge for 100 Hornady 36 caliber ball?   I think it's around $7 per hundred.   If one of the barrel makers would make a run of 33 caliber barrels, this could be the new darling of small bores.   What would be the ideal bore and groove dimensions for this .330 bullet?

Allan

[Kermit]

I shoot #4 buck in my .25. Seems I recall some discussion of a .33 barrel maker. Tried a search?

[Dphariss]

I just bought five pounds of 00 buck for reloading.   It occurred to me that this would make a nice small rifle caliber and you wouldn't have to worry about buying ML balls or casting bullets.   Hornady sells five pounds of these for about $19.  They are swaged, perfectly round and very uniform.   Does anyone make a barrel in this caliber?  The ball measures .330 so the bore would have to be .335 to .340.

I shot a lot of buckshot from a 32 Douglas barrel when I was a lot younger.
It was a lot cheaper then too.

Dan

[Daryl]

I bought a 5 pound box of Hornady 00 buck.  They measure .323" av. and are fairly hard for loading in a .320" bore, but not impossible.  The seem to shoot as well as the .311", but not better. I bought a DC .319" mould from Lee and just cast a couple hundred in about  1/2 hour - both cavities measure .320" round. I was surprised they were round, no other Lee mould I have casts a perfectly round ball in one cavity, let alone both.

[northmn]

My computer needed cleaning up and I cannot remember his name, but I have a 33 cal rifle barrel at 1-32 twist that needs to be built.  It is supposed to take that size ball.  As one can get over 600 ball in 5 pounds it would be cost effective to buy the buckshot.  I have a mold at 319 but may buy the stuff anyway.

DP

[Dave K]

There maybe some variables in the making of 00 buck. I bought some Speer 00 once and it measured .319, even though the chart says it is supposed be .330. Then I bought some Hornady 00 and it measures .330. I have an old original Sheets that this fits perfectly in.

[Daryl]

Well- after all this talk of .33" 00 buck, which is what I remembered buying, I went down and just checked my 5 pound box of Hornady - it's "0" buck, not "00" and it measures .321" to .323" when measured all whichiway around the balls. They look nice and round, but aren't quite.  As I noted, they seem to shoot as well as the .311" cast from a Lee mould.

This out of roundness is most likely due to the manufacturing method which leaves a belt all the way around.  IIRC from one of Dan's posts, the shot is then rolled to re-integrate the belt into the balls. All swaged spherical balls are made this way.

Next time out, I'll see how the .320" pure lead balls shoot, cast from the .319" Lee mould.

I'm sure each batch of balls come out at a slightly different size and quality.  Much depends on the settings of the machinery and it's wear tolerances, just as in the machinery used in making jacketed bullets.

[The other DWS]

not all buck is pure lead any more.  Some are hardened with who knows what. 
Depending on the alloy that could affect weight and diameter to some extent.

  Alloys can also shift some characteristics as they age.  Some really picky cast bullet bench-rest shooters store their cast bullets in the freezer and then retemper them a day or two before a match.  Pure lead, if it is indeed pure lead avoids these complications.   Fortunately with patched round balls we can adjust for minor variations

[Frizzen]

The Hornady 0 Buck is 97 % pure lead. They stopped making it over a year ago. They sold the
last of it for 12.00 a box delivered. There is 700 balls in a box. I got plenty of it at that price.
Enough for my lifetime.

[Daryl]

That's good info, Frizzen - the Hornady 0 buck I have, I purchased from Wholesale Sports in Calgary 2 years ago.  It seems a LOT harder than the pure lead balls I've been casting, however with my rifle's crown, even the .0225" patches aren't cut on loading or shooting.  I have some nice thin, kinda stretchy 100% cotton (with crinkle stitch weave) pocket drill or a twill, that runs .019" on the calipers that will work well with them and the new .320" cast balls.

We put a .508" pure lead ball down into Taylor's .500 bored Virginia with that patch material and the lands merely impressed the cloth into the ball's surface quite easily with one smack with the hand on the starter.  Then, with the material's tag end strips, pulled the combination out almost effortlessly, with the lands showing on the the patch and no cutting. Pretty tough stuff for tight combinations. I wish I had more of it. The store doesn't know if them can get any more. I'll also try the new fabric-land out the Hart Hwy for this material.

[Kermit]

ToW still lists Hornady buck on their website and claims "pure lead." They have 00 and 000--and #4.

Wikipedia has 8 and 9 pellets/oz for 00 and 000 respectively. Now #4 goes 21/oz. Love it. My GGGrandfather's Scots genes are'nt so very diluted. Mix that with the Swiss...

00 goes about 640 to 5lbs.
#4 goes at 1680 to 5lbs.

 

[Daryl]

Wikipedia needs to actually weigh them, I guess or use a more accurate chart.
Granted, before Hornady was swaging shot and selling 000 as .350"- 000 was listed in the books as .360". That would be 100 bore or gauge or 6.25 to the ounce and 500 to the 5 pound box.

Hornady's 000 is listed as .350". - that is 109 guage in pure lead = 6.81 to the ounce - 545 per Hornady 5# box.

Hornady 00 buck, if .330" is then 130 to the pound in pure lead, or 8.125 per ounce - 650 per Hornady 5# box.

0 buck, as measured average at .323"  is 138 gauge, or 8.625 to the ounce - 690 per Hornady 5# box.

#1 buck, at .300" would be 173 to the pound, or 10.8 to the ounce - 865 per Hornady 5# box.

[Long John]

I have been using Hornady 000 buck shot in my 36 caliber rifle for several years.  I use a .020 patch lubed with bear grease/bees'wax over 40 grains of GOEX fffg powder.  I realize that's not a tight enough load for Daryl but its tight enough for me.  It gives me 1 inch groups at 50 yards off a rest, which is as good as my 63 year-old eyes can do with iron sights, even with my 25-20.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[Daryl]

John - I'm sure it would work just fine, especialy in .008" to .010" rifling as you'd have .005" or more compression in each groove.  I would not hold out any faith for 50 yard 1" groups with a .015" patch along with that 000 for your rifle, though.

[Ben I. Voss]

Long John, 1 inch at 50 yards is pretty darn good to me. What kind of crown do you have on that rifle? Seems I remember that you use a coned muzzle on some other of your rifles.  Ben

[Long John]

Ben,

I just use abrasive paper formed into a cone with a ball placed inside to break the edge of the crown and go down to 1500 grit crocus cloth.  I do NOT have a "coned" muzzle.  With this rifle and load I do have to use a short starter.  I couldn't get the rifle to group with a load that was loose enough to start without a starter. 

I am NOT a good shot!  I just love my flintlocks and shoot the best I can.  When I read about people getting dime-sized groups I am quietly envious but at peace.  For me to be in the woods with a beautiful long rifle is what it is all about.  I know my accuracy limits and stalk to within those limits.  If my quarry catches on before I am within my range limit I figure God had other plans for it.

Best Regards,

John Cholin