Author Topic: Opinions on the best stock finishs  (Read 16328 times)

Dave Faletti

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2012, 09:42:54 AM »
There can be different additives(drying agents/catalysts) or none at all and still be labeled 100% if the amount is small.  It can also be polymerized thus being thicker.  Same material as far as labels go.  Stuff like Tru-Oil most likely is oil thats hardened then disolved in mineral spirits.  The MSDS for it lists the solvent, linseed oil and another oil most likely the linseed oil thats polymerized. A number of materials we use aren't a specific compound/molecule but a group.  Turpentine is an example of a group of molecules where acetone is a specific one.  Doesn't make things easy for people with more demanding requirements.

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2012, 05:23:45 PM »
In my experience the MOST frustrating aspect of oil finishes is the nearly total lack of information about what we're actually buying. I've seen "100 % Tung Oil" that was thin and clear as kerosene, and "100 % Tung Oil" that could pass for maple syrup, different brand names of course. OK, so, which is 100% pure tung oil???

All mfg are required to supply an MSDS on-demand however many of them simply avoid disclosing the ingredients as "trade secret".  Hint- if you see "trade secret", you can well bet it's more than just tung oil & curing enhancers.

Another giveaway that you're not getting true, pure tung oil is any product priced less than $40/gal because even the low-end, bottom-of-the-barrel grade costs around $28/gal in bulk wholesale plus freight from China.  Certified highest grade of triple-filtered first-press is over $200/gal bulk wholesale; medium-grade certified first-press runs around $70/gal.  If it's not certified as "first-press", it's solvent-extracted and many products are claimed to be "certified" but unless the supplier is willing to provide a copy of the certification as per the Chinese govt., it ain't certified ... and, if the certification does not contain the grade of the oil as-tested, the Chi-com seal and the signatures of the lab tech and govt. officer, it ain't a real certification.  Tung oil is like essential oils and the Chi-com's take the certifications real serious, anyone caught falsifying a Chi-com govt. certification is normally executed. 
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Offline v308

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2012, 06:36:31 AM »
Thanks for the insightful information, it means alot to me. How an oil behaves/how it can be applied is important. On open grain woods (walnut, oak, ash, etc.) it should allow you to wet-sand in order to fill the grain, not so important on close grained (maple, cherry). It seems many of the 'modern' finishes are designed to be wiped/brushed on, allowed to dry for a few hours, then lightly sanded/steel wooled, and another coat brushed/wiped on. In my mind that means they are plastic/lay on top, essentally a 'sprayed on' film. They have their uses, just not on 'my' traditional longrifles/sporters.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2012, 07:31:53 PM »
Quote
Not sure if anybody has specifically mentioned it in this thread, but I would suggest putting your linseed finished stock in good direct sun.  The difference this makes in drying is remarkable.

Jim
Yes the sun helps but I added a couple of drops of Japan Dryer to the last batch of BLO/turpentine/lead oxide that I mixed up. Guess I didn't have enough lead oxide in it because I could not get it to dry. After I added the Japan Dryer it dried overnight and I could not tell that it affected the finish. Just ain't crazy on cooking the concoction for several hours.
Dennis

Store bought BLO seems to vary wildly in drier content by brand and maybe by lot.
I have some I cooked up awhile back and have finally gotten around to using and it needs more driers .
But I can no longer get the brand I used to use either. ::)
I will have to add more Japan Drier I suppose...

Dan
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ChrisHarris

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2012, 08:10:43 PM »
What is BLO?

Dave Faletti

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2012, 08:13:37 PM »
BLO   =   boiled linseed oil

ChrisHarris

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2012, 08:15:54 PM »
Thanks

Offline davec2

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2012, 02:02:04 AM »
Dan,

Based on information I have gathered over the past couple of years from you, Eric K, and Mad Monk, I started to do my own work with boiling linseed oil.  I have come up with a method to boil 100 to 200 milliliters at a time so that I can experiment with driers, boiling temperatures, boiling times, etc., without making up a gallon at a time.  I test drying times on a glass plate.  The dried films on the glass also give me a method to asses the elasticity, color, hardness, "stickiness", etc.  This small batch testing is also much quicker and less dangerous than boiling a gallon at a time.

During these experiments, I ran into exactly the problem you note, namely, that the precursor material is often not the same batch to batch and has completely unknown constituents in it that obscure the results of the experiments.  I have begun using two linseed oil bases for the tests to help eliminate this problem.  One is organic flax seed oil, the food supplement kind.  It is cold pressed "linseed" oil and is unrefined.  As a food supplement, it has no driers of any kind in it so I have a consistent starting point with each batch.  The second linseed oil base I have been using is the "Varnish Maker's Linseed Oil" from Wood Finishing Enterprises:

   (http://www.woodfinishingenterprises.com/coating.html). 

This also has no driers in it, so it gives me another known starting point.  So far I have had good luck with both but have not been able to produce the "ruby red" oil that Monk talks about in his book.  However, the "coffee" colored oil that I have produced seems to dry rapidly and produce a tough, elastic film.  Not done yet, but this small batch process with a known starting oil has been working out well so far.
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2012, 02:21:38 AM »
I used to really like Formbys Tung oil finish. But they have changed the formula, I suspect they have either reduced or eliminated some of the driers. Probably to appease the peoples republic of California. The present formula does not dry nearly as nicely as the old stuff. I will have to try adding a bit of Japan dryer to it before use next time.  BJH
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Online Gaeckle

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2012, 04:10:12 PM »
Has anybody ever used a thin coat of shelac as a filler, followed by BLO finishes? I wonder if shelac was used by old timers.........

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2012, 04:27:28 PM »
I use a 1# cut of dewaxed garnet shellac as a filler on cherry and walnut...  soak it in good and then sand/scape back to bare wood and then burnish, then I use Chambers Traditional Oil Finish (Varnish), but you could use your own homemade BLO Varnish.  The big benefit is it fills well, gives a slight red tint, holds burnished whiskers if any down, and slows the migration of humidity in and out of the stock significantly...or it is believed. 
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Online bluenoser

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2012, 04:29:09 PM »
Has anybody ever used a thin coat of shelac as a filler, followed by BLO finishes? I wonder if shelac was used by old timers.........

Since shellac would seal the wood, I would expect it to prevent the BLO from soaking in.  If you are talking about sanding the shellac back before applying the BLO, that would be a horse of a different color.  Close grained woods like maple really don't need a filler.  Just speculation on my part.  I have never tried it.

Laurie

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2012, 04:40:07 PM »
Dr. Tim

You posted your reply while I was composing mine.  I like your technique.  Cutting the filler back leaves it just in the pores - where you want it.  Not news to you.  ;D

Laurie

bonron

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2012, 12:51:50 AM »
Over the years I've tried them all. I ended up with Lin-speed. Use three to four coats, let dry for 48 hrs,  steel wool it back to bare wood after each coat and put on one more coat. Rub each coat in very good. Finally use one or more coats of Johnsons Paste wax. The number of wax coats will determine the level of gloss. A simple rub-down with a soft cloth will restore the finish after usage.  8)

Rangerdave

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2012, 10:53:30 PM »
I have had excellent results using a 50/50 mix of BLO and Danish Oil. They seem to be very similar but the Danish Oil has dryers in it. I also took a bit of that concotion and mixed it with beeswax to use as an initial coat - beeswax acts as a grainfiller. I also use the beeswax mixture for the occasional stock oiling.

Offline smart dog

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Re: Opinions on the best stock finishs
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2012, 02:09:10 AM »
...I would never put hardware store stuff on my guns...
Come on. You are putting "hardware" stuff on your guns. That is unless you are making your own product from natural ingredients. I'd bet the Chambers oil stuff is just a mixture of some of the same stuff that's in finish oils bought at WalMart.

Hi Keb-mo,
Not true.  For example, there are different grades of linseed oil.  The hardware store oil is an amber color because it contains all kinds of residue from the manufacturing process.  Artist grade linseed oil is clean and has a very light color as a result.  "Tung oil" finishes are sold in hardware stores that are varnishes sometimes made with tung oil derivatives, but containing no actual tung oil.  However, if you buy Sunderland-Welles tung oil from a specialty supplier you are getting the real thing either polymerized by heating or unpolymerized.  I am confident that Chambers oil finish is made with much higher quality ingredients than a can of boiled linseed oil from Walmart. 

dave
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