bluing removal

[FRJ]

I asked this question a while back and got an answer. Now I can't remember the answer and when I search for it the search doesn't come up with anything. It was either amonia or vinigar that I was told to use but I cant remember which.Don't know what I'm doing wrong with the search but I must not be doing something right. Help anyone? FRJ

[Tim Crosby]

 
  The stuff you buy to clean Aluminum wheels will take it off. Spray it on let it sit, wash it off, may thae a coouple of apps.

   Tim C.

[54Bucks]

I never tried the ammonia. I've used plain old cheap Naval Jelly.

[Acer Saccharum]

Muriatic acid will take it off, even etch some. Must be neutralized.

Naval jelly might be muriatic in gel form. Anybody ever use this?

[docone]

Naval Jelly is Phosphoric acid.
It still needs to be neutralized.
Any rust remover can be used. Blueing is rust anyway.

[Don Tripp]

Muriatic acid will take it off, even etch some. Must be neutralized.

Naval jelly might be muriatic in gel form. Anybody ever use this?

I've used Naval Jelly and it works instantly. After the bluing is gone it leaves the metal grey, it's not bright like metal that has never been blued and the metal still seems to be resistant to rust. It seems like there was a discussion many years ago on the old ALR site about achieving a "London Grey" finish and one method was to blue the metal using either the slow rust, nitre or caustic salt methods and then remove it with Naval Jelly. I thought that it was you Acer, who taught us this method. I used this method on a friends .275 Rigby Mauser and on a Bean Rifle.

[Artificer]

We used Muriatic (Brick Cleaning) Acid to "strike" the surface of SS M40A1 Sniper rifle barrels, so they would take the special Black Oxide hot tank "bluing" when we built or rebuilt those rifles at Quantico.  We got it as common "Brick cleaning" acid from Hardware stores.   Forgive me for adding that on this forum, but I also used it to strip "damascus" shotgun barrels, some dug relics that were of little value and some muzzleloaiding barrels as well.  I also used Naval Jelly on some relics and some other barrels.

We had a long plastic trough to hold the Muriatic Acid that we got at a hardware store, it was sold as I think it was either a brick layer's or sheet rock layer's "mud trough."  We found we could leave a little oil in the bore and chamber and did not have to plug the bore as long as we did not leave it in the Muriatic Acid more than 20 to 30 seconds and then it was QUICKLY pulled up out of the Acid trough (by the wire through the barrel) and dropped in a another trough holding water right next to it.   This method did entirely no harm to the bore and we would have known it had it done so from testing the rifles on the super expensive test racks we had.

When I used Naval Jelly on a couple of “Damascus” shotgun barrels, I found I did not like how quickly it “ate” into the softer iron and left a rough surface.  Something to consider if you use it on original iron barrels, perhaps.

I am not a chemist and do not know the relative amount of “acid etching” between Naval Jelly and Brick Layer’s Acid.  However from some experience using both of them, I would always try Brick layer’s acid first because you can dilute it by pouring it into water and add more if you need to so it won’t “eat” or etch the surface too much.  (Note:  NEVER pour water into acid as there is a very fast and very violent reaction that can throw acid all over you.)  I would not use either on a barrel unless I was close to a shower or garden hose or at least a large sink, in case you spill some on yourself and can quickly neutralize/wash it off.   I can not more strongly suggest one uses the Industrial strength, chemical resistant gloves and a face shield around acid.  Even when you are extremely careful around acid, accidents will happen.

Gus

[greybeard]

An old fried useto do a lot of British damascus guns and soaked the barrels in a Borasic Acid bath. Takes a couple if days as a rule and thet come out a bit frosty looking that you can buff of with burlap.
As a kid I remember my Mom using it as an eye wash if I got  sty so it is quite mild.

Bob Reader

[kutter]

I've used muriatic  to strip bluing and heat scale from parts.
I've got a couple gallons donated from former owners of swimming pools,,so they must have needed the stuff for something to do with the water cleaning/Ph thing with the pool water.
The home depot stuff sold for masonary work is fine too.

I use it in a very weak soln. Perhaps 1 tsp to a gallon of water. Room temp.
It strips hot salt bluing in a few seconds to a couple minutes,,rust bluing will take maybe 10 minutes+.
Removing heat scale from parts will require an extended soaking for a couple of hours.

The parts come out a light gray. Sometimes the blued parts look as if they are still blued till you wipe then with your finger and the color disappears off of them. Yes I put my fingers right in the stuff, it's that weak.
I never plug the bores of any bbls.
I've never had any problems with etching or pitting. I would not however leave parts in the soln over nite or longer extended times. It is an acid soln after all.
Flush well and neutralize after.

I reuse it till it's almost black from the residue of the blue & scale it removes. Can take a couple of years even with regular use.
A little acid lasts along time. My supply is going to outlast me for sure.

Naval Jelly works OK in some instances, like on SxS bbls, where you might not want to get the acid soln between the ribs.
It seems to loose it's power fast though and I have to stand over it and reapply with a brush the coating to keep it  doing it's job. Kind of an uneven look to the surface when it's done, but they get polished up anyway.

[Metalshaper]

Try Evaporust!
http://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html


use a container, that will hold the part<s >  and cover with the Evaporust soln.  walk away for a couple of hours
come back and rub the part down with 4-0 steel wool and rinse.. there should not be a trace of any bluing??
if it does, just drop it back in .. 

I've used this stuff on a variety of blued parts,, an the finish just dissolves right away.. Works good for de-rusting
any old tools/parts/whatever, you need to clean up! on a finished barrel, there should not be any pitting or etching. This chemical formula is safe to handle bare handed. when used up can go down the drain.. and uses a process called chelation, to remove Oxides "Only",  the parent metal is unaffected.

Hope it helps?

Respect Always
Metralshaper/Jonathan

[TMerkley]

Another thing that works well and is really cheap is lemon juice or orange juice.  The citric acid works with in a couple of hours and will also remove any oxidation in the breech.  Just don't leave it in for more than 24 hours. then it will etch the metal.  Which by the way, it looks pretty cool too!  I have used it on smaller gun parts and muriatic acid on barrels.  The muriatic acid works instantly. When using Muriatic acid, you should pull the metal parts when you stop seeing bubbles.  (oxidation removal) Also, neutralize with water and baking soda.  Then to get a deep blue, you must remove the Acid that has set into the metal.  If not you will get a greenish-gray blue and not very dark.  Two ways to remove the chemical from the metal.  1st is sanding and getting below the absorption level.  The second is with heat.  On smaller parts, like hammers and screws, I put over the flame on a kitchen stove.  It turns the flame green!  When you are about red to orange heat the flame will turn back to blue.  That is when you know it is removed and safe to do bluing.  The hardest lessons learned are usually the best lessons learned.  School of hard knocks!

[FRJ]

Thanks for all the replys guys. It was however vinigar or ammonia. I used it to remove the blue on a GPR and it worked great!!! Guess I'll go buy some ammonia and try it. Should work as vinigar doesn't. FRJ

[volatpluvia]

emory cloth works real good, doesn't leave residue that has to be nutralized.  Does not etch anything.  Does not get into the bore.  Barrel is ready for whatever right after you wipe the dust off with a soft cloth.  Really not much work at all.  Probably be done by the time you set up two dip tanks.
volatpluvia

[oakridge]

Birchwood Casey "Blue and Rust Remover" works great. It just contains phosphoric acid.

[Scout]

Muriatic ( pool acid ) works great. I used to use it to "age" the rifle muskets of a CW group I use to be in during the 1990s.
Some barrels and bands would come out a grey color and others would come out brite. Natural use with blackpowder took care of the stains and streaks over a short time. A bit of steel wool to strip the shine off the stock and it would make em look "old and battle used".

[Stophel]

You could bleed on it.  That takes bluing right off!

[kutter]

Birchwood Casey product is primarily phosphoric acid,,the same stuff as Naval Jelly.
But it does have a touch of sulfuric acid in it  for some added kick I guess & a pinch of oxalic acid too.
I guess it'd cover all the bases with that and convenient for the occasional user or need.

http://sport.birchwoodcasey.com/files/MSDS/16125_Blue_Rust_Remover.pdf

I'll stick with the free muriadic I have at a tsp/per gallon water.
I used it a  lot of it in the business.