i finialy got to set up and shoot a little today.i got in some 8 oz.denim that measures .017 and some 10 oz that measures .024.i set up at 75 yards,shooting table,sandbags.i started out using a speer .495 ball and the 8 oz denim use a mixture of 70 percent water,30 percent alcohol and neatsfoot oil.started out using 65 grn.ffg,shot a flowler,then shot a 5 shot group then went to se my results.i have a spoting scope but like to look up close and personal.shot an L shaped cloveleaf,but i pulled the forth shot a little,had to much finger on the trigger,which counted for the off center ball.with my 6 oclock hold my group was 2" high and 3" right of center.i went up to 70 grn.ffg,shot another 5 shot group,it pulled my pattern down and left about 1" with a .065 max spread.the tempature was 94 with 80 percent humitidy so i broke down,cleaned up and came in under the air conditioner.i thank all you guys who have shared so freely with your input and advice,comments,ect.i shall post more as i progress toward the ultimate load with ffg and fffg.i like this a lot better than pyradex,plus,this is a quality rifle made with quality parts and put together by a fine craftsman,keep your finger light and your powder dry.regards robert