NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar - Verner Class

[Curtis]

Well, I have been back home a couple of weeks now, but my mind is still reeling from all the information it got filled with at the NMLRA Gunsmithing Seminar!  This year I took Jack Brooks' nine day class, Stocking a Rifle in the Style of Andrew Verner of Bucks County, PA.   When it comes to teaching, Jack is as good as it gets – he has a true passion for teaching and it really shows.  Jack doesn’t just throw the information out there, he makes sure each student truly understands what is being presented as well as having fun while soaking it up.

Some other instructors of note were for classes offered were Mark Silver, Wallace Gusler, George Suiter, as well as three members of the ALR forum - Jim Kibler, Ron Scott and Jim Chambers.  I had the opportunity to drop into several of the classes offered and there were great things going on in every of them.  If you want to learn about gun building and the associated arts from some of the best instructors, I highly recommend attending classes at this seminar.

In the Verner class Jack took us through some basic things like reshaping the barrel tang and cleaning up castings (made by Jack from the original rifle) to more advanced thing like stock geometry and architecture, lock plate & spring modification, trigger forging, making ramrod thimbles, nosecaps and patchboxes.  We made some tools, learned some carving techniques, stock finish and staining, and did some brazing with brass scraps, borax and a torch – and covered much more, such as how to fix mistakes!

There were nine of us students in the Verner class, a great bunch of guys (at least the other guys), there to learn and have fun doing it!  The skill levels ranged from near beginners to full time builders.  Here is a link to an article and video on the seminar:
http://wkunews.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/gunsmiths

Some photos from the Verner class:















































And here are a few photos from a couple of the other classes offered and one from the shoot:




















If you want to shave years off your learning curve I would urge you to attend one of these seminars or similar classes.  Thanks for looking!


Curtis

[hortonstn]

curtis,
thanks for the piks really looks like a great time
paul

[Ed Wenger]

Curtis,

Thanks for the great photos! I was in this class with Curtis, and would echo his words.  It was by far, the most informative (and fun) experience I've had to date on anything related to Longrifles.  It was like Longrifle University.  Nine full days of superb instruction by one of the best in the business.  Jack is a great guy, freely shares a wealth of information, and has an ipad full of original rifle photos.  I only wish I had done this about five years ago when I got started.

Like Curtis said, all the instructors are top notch, and a joy to interact with.  I would HIGHLY recommend attending any of the courses offered.  I know I'll be going back...


           Ed

[James]

Thanks for the post and description, I have been curious about the classes. Good to hear they are so helpful.

[NSBrown]

Glad you posted these Curtis.  Thanks. It brings back happy memories of this year's workshop.

It was (as always) a great learning experience. As builders we are ever hoping to improve our skills...these classes guarantee that happens for me at least once a year. I am grateful to all the instructors and students from who I learn more than I ever expect.

And thank you, NMLRA for making this possible.

[Lucky R A]

Curtis,  
       Your post immediately caught my attention as Andrew Verner is one of my favorite and most studied builders.  I have had the privilege of measuring and photographing "the" Andrew Verner rifle and have handled a number of lesser Verner rifles.  Both John Shuler and Andrew Verner worked in much the same style and I believe possibly traded patterns.  A few things immediately caught my attention.  I have not seen a Verner rifle utilizing the "Thumbnail" style buttplate or triggerguard.  While the thumbnail finial is classic in Bucks Co. style rifles, Verner seemingly stuck to the more conventional squared off butt plate and trigger guard.  Shuler, however, used both styles, and the thumbnail finial should be attributed to Shuler rather than to Verner.  Also, I have never seen a carving pattern like this on a Verner gun.  The pattern is something I might more expect on a Virginia gun.  
      I am sure that you learned a lot of valuable techniques and that the class was a great addition to your longrifle education.  Jack Brooks is a very talented builder, and I know that he could teach me many valuable things.  However, in my opinion, to characterize the rifle pictured as representing an Andrew Verner would be a gross mischaracterization.  From what I can see, the rifle could be characterized as having generic Bucks Co. architecture and furniture.

[Doug Cline]

Curtis,
Good to see your post, and I agree that this is one of the best longrifle experiences available. I was in Mark Silver's wire inlay class and Jim Kibler's carving class this year and they both did an excellent job. Top level instruction from great people and more information than you can fully process in 9 days. A big thank you to all the instructors and participants for another great seminar.

[Curtis]

 While the thumbnail finial is classic in Bucks Co. style rifles, Verner seemingly stuck to the more conventional squared off butt plate and trigger guard.  Shuler, however, used both styles, and the thumbnail finial should be attributed to Shuler rather than to Verner.  Also, I have never seen a carving pattern like this on a Verner gun.  The pattern is something I might more expect on a Virginia gun.  
    

Lucky,

I respect and appreciate you thoughts, and as I have not had your exposure and experience, nor acquired the quantity of research you have pursued, I cannot knowledgeably debate tho origin of the rifle.  On the other hand, I think the carving you are referring to is from Jim Kibler's carving class, NOT the Verner class.  I have edited the original post and bolded the heading between the two sets of pictures to help eliminate confusion.

The original rifle is an un-published  Verner that Jack had in his possession for a while.  This is not the place to post photos of the rifle without the owner's permission - but the carving on the original is definitely of the style of Verner, or as you mentioned, Shuler.

Again, I am not doubting your knowledge, just trying to clarify a couple of things.

Curtis

[Lucky R A]

     Thanks Curtis,
              The clarification is helpful.  I in no way intended to dis Jack Brook's work or the valuable educational experience of the NMLRA seminar.    You did say the gun was in the style of A.Verner, and I obviously have not seen all the known Verner rifles.  I am quite sure that they may have exchanged hardware as well as patterns, but I have only seen Shuler utilizing both styles of hardware.   The next time I see Jack at an event I will inquire of the rifle he based his seminar on.   If it in fact a Verner rifle, I would love to see see it---as I said I am sure Jack could teach me a lot.  I am glad you enjoyed your experience, thanks for posting your photos...

[Ed Wenger]

Ron,

That's very interesting.  I was in the process of typing a response saying the gun was signed by Verner, but after I thought about, I think it was unsigned...  I know there was a couple of things that Jack noticed that lead him to believe it was made by Verner, but for the life of me, I can't remember the specifics.  Curtis?...

At any rate, it's a beautiful piece, and I hope I can do some justice to it through the one I'm building.  It's very slim, has a big bore (.54 cal), and we used the Davis Early Colonial lock, which is a big lock, and not one I would typically associate with a rifle from Verner or Shuler, but it matches the original very well.


          Ed


               

[Hawken62_flint]

Thanks for sharing your experience.  A good friend of mine took Mark Silver's wire inlay class and had the engraving class last year.  He said that he only wishes that he had started taking these classes 20 years ago, before he grew so old.  Hopefully, I will get to attend one or more of them in the near future.

[Curtis]

Ed,

I remember having discussion with Jack about the attribution, however I processed so much information in those 9 days that I would be "making up the details" if I tried to reiterate them.  I know he felt comfortable with the attribution.   At any rate you are spot on about the rifle being a very slender, graceful beautiful piece.



Curtis

[Curtis]

Poorboy and everyone else:

You are welcome, I am excited to share the experience with all who care to look at the post, and I hope it inspires some of you to sign up for a class or two in the future.  The experience was a very rewarding one on many levels!

Curtis

[Eric Smith]

Thanks for showing the pic's and relating the experience. I might be able to attend one in the year 2022. I'll be retired then, if not dead.   

[Ed Wenger]

Curtis,

I know what you mean about processing all the information.  I was looking over some notes today, and I'm really glad I took them!

Another thing that's really great about the experience is the folks in the class.  I learned a bunch from the other guys in the class! 



          Ed

[Rolf]

One of my fondest day dreams is attending the seminar , especially a nine day course taught by Ron Scott. Have to get rich first. Travelling expenses from Norway, isn't cheap.


Best regards
Rolf

[rsells]

Can any of you guys tell me the source for the vice (orange) the gentlement in the sixth photo is using to hold his rifle at the bench during the class?  I would like to rework my work station in the shop and thought this vice would fit my needs.  Thanks for the help.
                                                                                 Roger Sells

[Bob Roller]

Rolf,
Could you send me your personal E mail address? Mine is <wvgzr@webtv.net>

Bob Roller

[Ed Wenger]

Roger,

I sent you a personal email regarding the vice...

         Ed