Author Topic: Plastic Barrel Steel?  (Read 5278 times)

Online T*O*F

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Plastic Barrel Steel?
« on: June 16, 2012, 01:03:35 AM »
If you don't believe that internal stresses are induced when a gun barrel is machined, click on the link below and watch the video.  It's a slo-mo, high magnification video of lathe bits moving thru various steels.  Draw your own conclusions as you watch the variety of different things that happen as the bit progresses.

http://www.wimp.com/cuttingsteel/
Dave Kanger

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-S.M. Tomlinson

Daryl

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 01:23:15 AM »
Amazingly good photography.   

Offline KNeilson

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 01:47:24 AM »
 8)  Cool video. Its remarkable what a difference the coatings on the tool make

Offline volatpluvia

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 07:44:37 AM »
Wow!  Didn`t even know what I was seeing at first.  Amazing, several times the blade did not appear to be cuttung, just pushing the metal away.
volatpluvia
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William Worth

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2012, 04:45:03 PM »
Wow again, looks like water flowing past a bridge abutement.  Drift and all.

Offline LynnC

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 07:52:31 PM »
Now that was COOL  8)

I can see how those tiny surface burs are formed that you can feel with you fingers.
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Online T*O*F

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 08:21:33 PM »
It seems like everyone is missing the point.

1. Can you see the pressure waves induced in both the parent metal and the shaving?  How would this affect a gun barrel?

2. The metal is separating in advance of the cutter tip as it is plowed forward by material balling up on the tip itself.  The cut is not clean as we would expect.

3.  Periodically, that ball breaks free and in some cases rolls under the cutter, where is is pressure welded back into the surface.  Think of the heat and pressure being generated at the microscopic level to do this.  Envision it happening with a rifling cutter.  Can this explain why some barrels are $#@* and some are excellent, even though they are cut sequentially by the same machine and cutter?

4.  Do any of you ever think beyond "Wow, that's a beautiful forest" to see the tree frog clinging to the leaf of an individual tree?  What other phenomena are we missing in this video?
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Daryl

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2012, 11:00:58 PM »
Nothing missed. We all saw it, along with the material moving in waves in front of, above and behind the cutter.

Do you ever post without attempting sarcasm?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 02:03:57 AM by Dr. Tim-Boone »

nosrettap1958

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 02:03:42 AM »
That's why there are no two rifles on this planet that are the same, each is an individual and should be approached as such.

Daryl

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 02:36:52 AM »
There is also a difference in cutting, whether a tool steel cutter is being used, or a carbide cutter.  I was told by a machinist that the carbides push more than cut.  Of course, angles are so vitally important in the cutting tools as well.  All, along with materials being cut, alters the way they are cut, or pushed aside.

Offline volatpluvia

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 06:16:45 AM »
TOF,  I believe I said that the cutter was just pushing the metal away.  And yes I saw the ball of metal in front of the cutter go under it at times.  And I wondered how that might affect the finished product.  And I saw the gaps form under the cutter as well.  I just accepted that at the micro level it was not something that could be avoided.  I also saw the waves in the metal form under the cutter as well.  Just did not form a sentence to express it.  Even so, it was a wow to watch.
volatpluvia
I believe, therefore I speak.  Apostle Paul.

doug

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 07:17:01 PM »
Both impressive and interesting to watch.  In many ways it reminded me of a snow plow with snow piling up in front of the blade.  I was pretty surprised to see how the metal sheared away some distance ahead of the cutting edge, in some of the shots.  I also wondered how deep a cut was being made to get the metal piling up like that.

   Relative to barrel stress, my impression is that a good deal of it is formed on the surface of barrels which are rolled into shape.  I have turned several barrels to either 1/2 octagon or to smaller diameter on a metal lathe.  The ones that appeared to have been milled to shape, did not seem to warp significantly while the ones which had been rolled into an octagon and straightened, warped quite noticeably when the surface material was turned off.

   The most recent barrel that I turned was a friends 58 cal flintlock which had become too heavy from him.  I turned the front half into a tapered round barrel but left the front sight dovetail and the rear sight mounting unchanged.  After re bedding the barrel I took it out and shot it and at 25 yards at least, the gun still shot approximately to the same location

cheers Doug

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2012, 03:50:26 AM »
The old Douglas barrels were cold drawn to octagonal shape. This left very high residual stresses, tensile on the outside and compression in the bore.

I once carefully cut a slice of D. barrel, with water cooled abrasive saw. Measured the distance across flats exactly with micrometer (nominal 7/8" barrel). Then with same water cooled saw cut a slit in the ring I had cut. It sprung open considerably, from residual stress 

Recall that Golden Age Arms used to have Douglas stress relieve their barrels, which would be done about 1100 - 1200F for a couple of hours.

Free-machining bar is normally hot rolled sligthly oversize, descaled, then cold drawn to meet
out-of-round tolerances fine enough to be held in a collet. That leaves the bar with some amount of residual stress in it. Those stresses will cause distortion if more metal is machined from one side than another.   

Machining itself does add stress to the metal. Still, I suspect that most of the distortion one finds from machining mild steel comes from that steel being cold drawn, "cold rolled", without a final stress relief by the steel mill. Which is normal mill practice.

An accurate rifle barrel requires that the blank must be stress relieved at some point. May I minimize dispute by suggesting that many will acknowledge this to be true for modern cartridge rifles?

In Ancient Times the prints for GE gas turbine parts machined of nickel alloy always said something like "rough machine, then stress relieve/heat treat, then final machine"

Daryl

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Re: Plastic Barrel Steel?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 05:38:57 AM »
My last GM CF barrel,  was a lovely almost blue colour but not perrfectly even, as received. boviously it was stress relieved, but not polished. It is .45 cal. and had put 10 consecutive shots under an inch at 10 meters, using aperture sights.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 05:39:51 AM by Daryl »