Author Topic: Need some finishing tips  (Read 4026 times)

mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Need some finishing tips
« on: July 28, 2012, 06:31:19 PM »
Some of you gentlemen do this very well. I am trying to add a little (repeat Little) patina to my stock finishes. I have tried using spray paint then rubbing it back, it came off with the next coat of oil finish. I have tried mixing dry pigment into the oil finish, after getting the finish I wanted it looked beautiful and seemed dry, I tried waxing the finish with Renaissance Wax, most of my artistically applied patina came off on the wax application rag.  ???

I'm not trying to make the rifle look 200 years old. Just trying to add a well used but cared for look to the rifle. A little extra darkenting in the less handled areas. I can deal with the artistic expression, but I'm having technical difficulties.

Anyone care to share information, or are these things proprietary information.
PM are fine if you don't want to spread the word too far and wide. ;D

Offline Dave B

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2012, 07:02:44 PM »
I think the secret t to the spray paint approach is to let it dry  for a couple of days. after the initial rub down before applying any thing over the top of it. I have always liked using the steel wool to work down the stain in the normal wear areas making the finish lighter then start the finish layers. Using excessive Oil finish on a newly applied oil base paint is just like using a solvent on the paint. let it dry out well then use the finish sparingly and you'll be fine. I know in the beginning I was all ways rushing my finishes and it never turned out good. When we had the kids I had to walk away more and things started to improve with a little more time in between
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012, 01:27:06 AM »
Michael,

There's a variety of ways to add a patina to a stock, and like you said, some folks do it a little better than others.  I really feel this aspect of gun building is an art form in itself.  And, you'll get the inevitable "let time age it naturally", or some such quote.

At the end of the day, I look at stock patina as a way to show depth and character in a piece of wood.  Recessed areas around carving, the lock and side plate, the hollow of a the comb, etc., are darkened.  High parts on carving, the edges of panels, the wrist, etc., are lightened.  Take a look at guns you like that have been "aged", and ask yourself why that appeals to you.  That doesn't speak to the technique, but it will give you a guide for what you want to accomplish.  There needs to be a "meathod to the madness", a "road map" for you to follow.

Having said all that, which I think is just as important as the "how to", I'll talk about one technique that has worked well.  After the stock has been sealed (I use Permalyn Sealer), let it sit for a good 24 hours.  Areas that I want darkened are given a VERY LIGHT application of Permalyn sealer.  Just the very tip of your finger will do, and spread it around the area you want to treat.  Again, less is better.  I then use my finger to rub lamp black into that area.  Make sure you get all the recessed areas covered well.  After that, use a fine scotch brite pad, fine steel wool, or rag to get the black off the high spots.  Again, I think you'll have better results with less sealer.  After the entire stock has been done to your satisfaction, WIPE another coat of sealer on the stock.  Don't rub it or use a brush, I find a 2"x2" cleaning patch works well.  This application will "lock" the lamp black in place.  Again, let the stock dry for at least several hours.  If areas need it, you can "feather" the edges of the lamp black with fine steel wool, or fine scotch brite pad.  You don't want hard edges...  After this, add a couple more applications of sealer by wiping on until you get the desired coverage.  For me it's usually another two.  After the last coat is completely dry, you can rub back with fine steel wool, or fine scotch brite pad if you desire a less than shiny, or duller finish.  Since the lamp black is locked into the finish, you shouldn't have any issues with rubbing it out of the sealer.

There are certainly other methods that work very well also, tints, and glazes for example.  Experiment and have fun!  it's one of my favorite aspects of building a gun.

           Ed
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mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012, 06:58:22 PM »
Thanks Dave and Ed.

My career as a commercial artist and graphic designer gave me the skills to replicate the correct wear patterns. What I'm having a problem with, is making the patina stay on after it dries.

So far, I had my best success with Ivory Black dry pigment mixed into Chambers Oil finish. This I applied drop by drop, spreading it around and rubbing it back. When it dried after overnight, it looked fine and hard rubbing with a dry finger would not rub the patina off. At this point, maybe I should have applied more untiinted oil finish as a sealer, maybe a couple more coats, but it looked solid and would not rub off with a dry finger so I applied Renaissance Wax. The Wax removed most of the patina.  :'(

Ed, you mentioned "WIPE" sealer over the applied patina. Could you go into that a little more detail. On one of my early attempts I tried that but it lifted the color as well, I must be doing something wrong. That patina was applied into a tacky oil finish with dry powder rubbed into the tacky finish as you described. You mentioned lamp black as pigment, was it powder or paste?

I considered Artists Oil Colors as a pigment but thought it may dry too slowly, anyone experimented with this media?  ???  More help would be appreciated.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 01:23:10 AM »
Michael,

If you're using Chambers oil finish, you're going to have problems.  It's great stuff, I love it and have used it often, but in this application, for what ever reason, Permalyn works way better.  I'd do as described above, using Permalyn sealer.  After the wipe on coat to lock the lamp black in place, I'd give it another wipe on coat with Permalyn, then use Chambers oil after the Permalyn has completely dried.  By "wipe on", it's just that.  Apply the Permalyn to a square piece of cloth, then GENTLY wipe on the sealer, barely touching the stock.

The lamp black is soot.  I "collect" it on a sheet of thin metal using an oil lamp (Wal-Mart), which produces a lot of soot.  The lamp black is rubbed into the stock as above, using small amounts of Permalyn.  Hope that helps...


          Ed
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mjm46@bellsouth.net

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 01:31:28 AM »
Thanks Ed
I guess I'm going to have to wait till the next build for that treatment since this one is all done in Chamber's oil.

I guess till I get that next rifle build I'll try some test panels on scrap, maybe I'll get the hang of it

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 01:33:54 AM by Micah »

Don Tripp

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2012, 07:58:21 PM »


I'm not trying to make the rifle look 200 years old. Just trying to add a well used but cared for look to the rifle.

Use it well and then care for it.

A rifle doesn't stay looking new for very long. Go on a trek and carry it with you every minute like your life depended upon it and it will require authentic dings and scratches.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Need some finishing tips
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2012, 10:36:46 PM »
I had occasion to fondle/caress/eyeball ( a rifle a rifle be nice) on Saturday at Chuck's Ol home weekend by Jud Brennan.  Now that alone was worth the trip (course I only live 40 mins away)  In any case this particular piece had that old looking red undertone  with a darker backround around the carving and low areas.  Appealing to one's eye.  My own method is the use of Potasium Permanganete (spelling) over entire stock; but heavy in the low areas then rubbed out in the wear areas.  This is done after the Nitric acid and heat goings on.... ::)Then the couple or three apps of maple stain (talking maple wood here) then v light apps of good ol leaded boiled linseed oil.  Let dry/dry/dry then more ruf/ruf/rub and dry some more.  Ok so sue me I like the !@*%&@ leaded and boiled linseed oil.   :D

BTW:: Beware laying old b linseed oiled rags on a pile unless you like to see fire engines.....
Getting back to that Brennan rifle he distressed the barrel flats and this was actually appealing to the eye (mine at least)
My disclaimer is that I'm no prize winner and am happy if the new rifle hangs together when  I shoot 'em.   But they do win their share of matches....