Browning

[billd]

Did anyone ever use Brownells Express Browning?

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8795

It sounds like Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown. I didn't care for the durability this.

Thanks,
Bill

[Dennis Glazener]

Someone gave me a bottle of that stuff (Express Brown #2) and I didn't have directions. I found some directions on the net and tried it and didn't like it at all! Have forgotten why (guess its my age!). I have yet to find anything that works as well (for me) as Laurel Mountain Forge.
Dennis

[billd]

Thanks Dennis,    that's what I expected but hoped otherwise.   I've never had good luck with a sweat box. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Bill

[B Shipman]

Bill, I've tried this stuff and didn't like it either.  The most trouble free stuff I've ever used is Wakon Bay TRU BROWN. No humidity box, no nothing. In fact my shop has a dehumidifier. The process takes 2 to 3 days. Flawless smooth brown. Here's how.

Degrease barrel ( I use BirchwoodCasey Degreaser, whatever). Go over barrel with 220 paper. Get the stell raw. Lay the tang on a box and a ramrod sticking out of the bore on another box. And just apply liberally. I doesn't mater if you rub it or if you don't.  ( Some products will plate the barrel with copper if you wipe to hard)Just put it on. Twice a day is fine. Wet it when it looks good to see if you have perfect coverage.  When you do you're done. Brainless. Perfect. You have to work real hard to screw this stuff up.

I'll put in my two cents on finishing if you like.

[billd]

Bill,
   Thanks for the info on Wakon Bay.   I'd love to hear your 2 cents on finishing, in fact, I'll take a dollars worth.

Thanks,
Bill

[NSBrown]

I'd like to recreate a grayed finish on the gun barrel  I have on my bench. I've rusted the barrel with Laurel Mountain's Barrel Brown. What do you guys recommend next?

I love the gray finish I've seen on a number of Allen Martin's guns.

[Dave Marsh]

Bill, I'll take $2 worth of your input on finishing.....

[California Kid]

NS Brown- Let it rust till it pits a little sand it all off, then apply cold blue and rub that back with steel wool.
Thats basically how AM does it.

[Rich]

I don't think Wakon Bay is in business. Track sells  true brown that seems to be the same however. I've used it and it seems just as good.

[LynnC]

NS Brown,
Here's what works for me.

1) Sand / polish barrel to your likeing

2) Use whatever cheap gun blue in a bottle you have to blue/black it.

3) Paint it with iodine & let sit overnight more or less

4) Scrub off all the brown crud that forms on the barrel with steel wool & oil it

You should end up with a nice silvery gray finish.
Try it on scrap and see if you like it.  Dirt simple!
This is Mark's (originator of this site) recipe and has worked well on steel for me.
Lynn

[LynnC]

Sorry billd - Looks like I helped steer this thread into the off topic ditch regarding the browning. Oh well................................Lynn

[T*O*F]

Random thoughts:

It sounds like Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown.

Plum brown works well if properly applied and works best on a highly polished barrel.  Looks like $#@* on a 200 grit or below, spotty...streaky..etc.

I have yet to find anything that works as well (for me) as Laurel Mountain Forge.

I have tried it several times from different bottles and could never get it to work at all.  It just dries and the metal don't rust.  I know of others who've had the same results.  Still others say it's great.  Don't know why it won't work for me, but I quit trying.

The most trouble free stuff I've ever used is Wakon Bay TRU BROWN.

I concur with that.  Never a problem under any conditions.  Tru Blue and Tru Brown are the same stuff...only the directions are different.  If you boil Tru Brown it will turn blue.  You can also use Waukhon Bay AquaFortis stock stain to brown your barrel.  It just has more acid than the other two.  I think Mike Lea bought the formula from Wm. Young and is marketing it now.  The formulas are widely available, probably even still in the old archives.

I like the deep, rich dark chocolate color of Dangler's, but the copper plating aspect is sometimes problematic.

[B Shipman]

Yes, the original owner of TRU BOWN is no longer in busines. I bemoaned the fact a couple of years ago and he sent me half a case which is close to a lifetime supply. Very gratefull.  It's curently available again.

Finishing. I really hate to fool with afterusting. When browned, I wash the barrel with water then apply a saturated solution of sodium hydroxide. This stuff is extremely caustic so wear gloves. I know you can use baking sod and so forth, but the chemical fact is no acid is left after this stuff. Any online chemical co. sells it and a bottle is a lifetime supply.

Wash it off. Rub the flats with 4-0 steel wool, staying off the corners. I then apply enough heat to the barrel, working one end to the other, to drive off all moisture. Then apply oil. and rub again with the steel wool. (Oil of any type, makes things less abrasive then water.) Wipe off he oil and you're done. Clean the barrel with oil in fact.


Wipe over it the next day with  a clean cloth and you get a pretty clean cloth. Anything else and, lets face it, you get rust on the cloth. Putting varnish, wax or linseed oil on the barrel will supress the rusting for a short while, but it will be back unless it's neutralized or (most likely) has used itself up.

[Chuck Burrows]

WAHKON BAY AQUAFORTIS—2 oz. $8.95.
Tru-Coat, Tru-Brown or Tru-Blue—2 oz. bottles $6.95.
S/H $12.50 up to six bottles. Continental U.S. ground shipping only.
Gunbuilder and dealer quantities available.
MICHAEL LEA AND DAUGHTER
2109 Summit Street
Columbus OH 43201
Telephone 614-291-4757
oldguns2109@sbcglobal.net

For neutralizing rusting" plain ole ammonia - has a PH of 14 or washing soda (found in teh laundry section of most stores) has a PH of 11
For comparison sodium hydroxide aka lye has a PH of 12-14

[Daryl]

Laurel Mountain after rusts badly. It's very active and will actually brown thorugh oil and finger prints (same thing).  It needs humidity to work expecially in the winter time here. The brown is very nice, can be smooth or rough (pitted) depending on what you want - card or no carding - smopoth or rough.  It cannot be rubbed- one wipe or you get copper. GM muzzleloading barrels sometimes seem to spots that don't rust well - don't know why.

  With L. Mountain I lay the barrel (plug in vent and muzzle)  on the wooden floor of the shop and lay a wet stip of cottom cloth alongside it - this works well. I water the cloth once to three times a day as it drys out here - sometimes very quickly - here.  One of the nicest, most even browns I've gotten with L. Mountain is on my vice's anvil where my browning solution wiping cloth sits, right through the WD40, bore solvents and other oils - go figure.

Taylor has some home-made browning solution that is incredible for use with a damp-box.

[Daryl]

Laurel Mountain after rusts badly. It's very active and will actually brown through oil and finger prints (same thing). It needs humidity to work especially in the winter time here. The brown is very nice, can be smooth or rough (pitted) depending on what you want - card or no carding - smooth or rough. It cannot be rubbed- one wipe or you get copper. GM muzzleloading barrels sometimes seem to spots that don't rust well - don't know why.

 With L. Mountain I lay the barrel (plug in vent and muzzle)  on the wooden floor of the shop and lay a wet strip of cottom cloth alongside it - this works well. I water the cloth once to three times a day as it drys out here - sometimes very quickly - here. One of the nicest, most even browns I've gotten with L. Mountain is on my vice's anvil where my browning solution wiping cloth sits, right through the WD40, bore solvents and other oils - go figure.

Taylor has some homemade browning solution that is incredible for use with a damp-box.

[B Shipman]

Chuck, I disagree. A SATURATED solution of sodium hydroxide is comparable to concentrated HCL. It will blister your skin at a touch. I would rather wash my hands in ammonia than touch this stuff. I've tried all this stuff over 30 yrs. and nothing works better. It doesn't matter what brown you use. Just wear gloves. And dispose of rags outside for awile. It may burn cotton and cause spontaneous combustion. Very unlikely but possible.

[Chuck Burrows]

Bill not sure what we're disagreeing over? I was just offering some less caustic alternatives and listing their PH balances. Ammonia tain't great to work with either, so I generally use the less obnoxious washing (or even baking soda) these days and then wash well with water, I just re-apply if need be, followed by a good oiling/waxing - - it hasn't failed me yet to stop the rust.....the whole object being to bring the PH level to 7 which is neutral.

And yep I know all about sodium hydroxide which is also known as: caustic soda, lye, soda lye, and sodium hydrate - is that what you're disagreeing about?
If so then with respect I'd suggest you look it up in any chemistry text or here per the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0565.html.
Lye is just a common name for sodium hydroxide and under either name it is available in different strengths/grades - there is a food grade for instance used for making lutefisk and German pretzels. Lye is often the name used when mixed with other stuff to make drain cleaner, soap, etc.  But the lye in those products is still sodium hydroxide - they are the same chemical - NaOH.
And yes especially in its pure form it is EXTREMELY caustic - I've used it for getting rid of the carcasses of dead/diseased critters......

anyway as always others mileage will vary........

[cal.43]

might be from interest
”Taschenbuch für prezisionsmechaniker. 1914” http://www.arkeliet.net/gunsmith/swartsbrennen1914.htm
there are other recipes go to Armatur->Bossemageren http://www.arkeliet.net/gunsmith/index.htm

[B Shipman]

Cuck, I just like to argue. Ammonia and baking soda work fine. I just like the once and done for sure.

[Chuck Burrows]

Bill - according to my better half of 27 years so do I, but I prefer to think of it as "spirited discussion"