Author Topic: how did you break your gun?  (Read 9903 times)

altankhan

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how did you break your gun?
« on: December 15, 2008, 06:42:53 AM »
I've had several original rifles and smooth bores over the years -- most had cracks of some sort in them (esp. at the rear lock bolt), but a few had serious breaks and repairs in the wrists and forearms.  I have an early cherry stocked Mass. militia musket, for instance, that is broken from under the anterior finial of the trigger guard back through to the silver inlay in the wrist -- and was crudely repaired with wire and a section of iron rod were the inlay had been.  I've always wondered how these breaks occurred -- dropped off a wagon or horse, smashed in battle, slip in the woods or shop, on game, angry spouse, ornery kids ... mostly lost stories with nothing but the repairs left as evidence (and sometimes artistically and ingeniously done).  But guns are still being made and used today -- what sort of breakage stories are out there?  Such stories might give us insight into what happened to some of the older guns.  Here's my main one:
Had a lovely .45 Vincent style half-stock rifle made from Golden Age parts by Dan Aubhil (Sycamore, Ohio), loved it so much I slept with it the first week. Finally took it into the woods squirrel hunting  .. . no squirrels, but back near a dried swamp I spied a large groundhog at about 30 yards.  Shot, and evidently just skimmed its under-sides.  It charged mad as a scalded dog straight for me.  Though I tried to dodge, it began snapping viciously at my feet. In the course of trying to skewer it with the pointed buttplate of the Vincent (flat, single-barrel shotgun buttplates work better) I managed to shatter the curly maple stock.  Broken from just inside the front of the trigger guard to the inlay in the wrist.  Once the woodchuck was stilled, I left the woods, with it in one had and $350 dollars worth of parts in the other.  Didn't tell Dan what I'd done til much later and I fixed it poorly on the sly with a piece of thin hickory ramrod.  It did become a hunting gun after that, I must say, and I have killed five deer with it.  Though I keep it away from groundhogs. 

Any other broken gun stories out there?  And how did you repair them?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 06:46:11 AM by altankhan »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 09:23:01 AM »
I've got a couple I'll tell you about in the morning.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 07:18:31 PM »
Broken wrists come from many things.
The harmonics (?) of a heavy barreled rifle simply tipping over can break the wrist.
The side hammer Sharps often shows this sort of break at the rear lock screw.
I discovered the cause on day when a 32" barreled Sharps was tipped out of a hallway corner by my then 18 month old son. I though he was in bed when I set it there to get cleaning supplies.
He tipped it out and it fell flat on the floor. Snapped the English Walnut straight across the wrist at the rear screw. Nice clean, complete break.  I am sure some MLs have been broken in the same way and it explained  the breaks I had seen in original Sharps.
I have only broken one wrist on a ML this back in my teens. Jumped and whacked it on a board. Bad grain flow did not help.
Had another one crack through the lock bolt hole...
Dan
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Daryl

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 12:23:12 AM »
How many have broken the stock of a TC Hawken just by it's falling over?

 Keith's Dad drove this Toyota toy tuck over his Purdey's stock just above the wrist, across the lock area - didn't break it - what a surprise. Keith leaned the .75 up against the right side of the truck and went to get some more gear, his Dad got in the driver's door fired it up. The rifle fell down, hit a rock on the barrel, which spun it sideways and as his Dad backed up, ran a rear wheel right over the lock plates.  Other than a few scratches, no damage. Not only are they murderous on moose & other critters of worth, but English Sporting Rifles made by Taylor are unbreakable?   ;):D::)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2008, 12:23:36 AM by Daryl »

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 12:24:20 AM »
This thread could easily belong in Gun Building, but since we're already here...

The rifle pictured is a half stock flint Hawken styled rifle in American walnut.  I built the rifle three years ago this month.  The owner has a documented 10,000 rounds through it.  He's on his second frizzen.
Last winter shooting alone on our trail, he suddenly found both feet at chest height and his body parallel to the snow - slipped on ice under the snow.  He instinctively put his hands down to catch his fall, but his rifle was in his right hand grasped behind the rear sight.  The rifle broke his fall, contacting the ground on the muzzle and toe plate approximately the same time.  He searched for a half hour on his hands and knees but found all the pieces in the snow, and brought them to me very upset.  He was sure it meant a new stock, and an appropriate expenditure.  Since the rifle has not been disassembled, it was still joined by the hardware.  But once I removed the barrel and trigger plate, it all came apart in several pieces.  After reassembling the pieces it appeared that it was complete, so again, I disassembled it, cleaned it, and mixed up a batch of Brownell's AcraGlas.  I clamped everything tightly with five various clamps vertically in the vise, and let it cure.  Cure is a good word here, because when I refinished the stock, there was hardly any evidence of the fractures.  Both I and the clint were delighted with the outcome.  So here it is (again).








The first rifle I repaired was back in the early '80s.  It too was a hawken but this time a percussion rifle with a Claro walnut stock.  In this case, the shooter had fired a shot and missed a fairly easy target.  In his disgust with his performance, he thumped the rifle on it's butt plate on the ground, and the wrist fractured , almost straight across.  
The repair was to separate the two pieces, drill holes in the ends of the breaks a little oversized, insert a section of redi-rod (1/4" x 20 tpi) two inches into each end, again the bonding agent was AcraGlas.  After refinishing, there is no evidence of the break.  That rifle is still in use, though it doesn't get thumped like that anymore.  Sorry no pictures...it was BDC (before digital cameras)

Both Daryl and I have had T/C "Hawken" rifles that got cracked through the lock bolt...I think they all do eventually.  
If you can avoid it, do not stand any rifle up, if there's a place to lay it down.  A standing rifle that falls over, or slips out on the floor, will almost certainly sustain a catastrophic break.

One thanksgiving at Lillouet's annual shoot, I was standing on a low bank above a narrow dirt road loading my Centre Mark Tulle Fusil Fin.  I was holding the gun between my knees vertically using both hands to do the loading.  My knees relaxed, the muzzle left me, and at the end of it's arc struck the road some two feet below where I was standing.  The wrist was broken completely through, but the long trigger guard held it all together.  I lashed it up with buckskin wangs from various shirts that were close at hand, and finished the match.  
Back in the shop, I joined the pieces as I had the Hawken mentioned above, but some small chips were gone and it looked like heck.  So I covered the break with rawhide and glue, and it is still shooting strong today.  It even survived Leatherbelly LOL.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2008, 02:23:40 AM »
You can split the forearm at the eschutcheon if you drive a bent wedge in at an angle...dont ask me how I know that... :o
TCA
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ottawa

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2008, 02:47:07 AM »
a good friend and i were out with our new filinters both long rifles in 45cal he took a shot at a rabbit that was setting still(both of us were 14)the rabbit took off strait at him and hid in a clump of grass at his feet so he wakes it and there goes his stock and the rabbit runs off :D and i get a black eye not from the rifle pieces but for lafing so loud . his dad had told us a story close to that about his old SxS w/ a broken stock like father like son  i said that's when he hit me .

northmn

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2008, 06:49:17 PM »
I had one that I leaned up against a poorly desined shooting bench at a BP shoot.  It got knocked over and broke through the wrist. The break went from the middle of the DST's to through the wrist coming out where the comb meets the wrist.  It was a real PITA to fix as the slant seemed to defy any clamping.  Still use the gun for hunting squirrels.  It was a slim 40. 

DP

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2008, 06:55:32 PM »
Broken wrists come from many things.
The harmonics (?) of a heavy barreled rifle simply tipping over can break the wrist.
The side hammer Sharps often shows this sort of break at the rear lock screw.
I discovered the cause on day when a 32" barreled Sharps was tipped out of a hallway corner by my then 18 month old son. I though he was in bed when I set it there to get cleaning supplies.
He tipped it out and it fell flat on the floor. Snapped the English Walnut straight across the wrist at the rear screw. Nice clean, complete break.  I am sure some MLs have been broken in the same way and it explained  the breaks I had seen in original Sharps.
I have only broken one wrist on a ML this back in my teens. Jumped and whacked it on a board. Bad grain flow did not help.
Had another one crack through the lock bolt hole...
Dan
Had one v similar!! >:(     Came home from hunting stood a long rifle in the hall corner I thought and when I turned away the rifle hit the floor snapped thru it's narrow wrist, fixed with a glue and screw job.  This was a purchased rifle and I later noticed it had an old beginning crack that then broke the rest of the way!

Offline George Sutton

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2008, 07:23:58 PM »
Great job Taylor! I never broke one myself (knock on wood), however I did have UPS break one for me. They really had to work at it but they were successful. The gun arrived it two pieces, broken through the wrist. I figured they ran the box over with a forklift.

Centershot

medbill

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2008, 12:22:48 AM »
Great job Taylor!!!! Wanna fix my Sharon Trade rifle I broke at a smiliar location but in a slightly different way. lol Long story there....

altankhan

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2008, 12:27:22 AM »
thanks for all the stories -- and, Medbill -- what happened?

medbill

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2008, 12:41:25 AM »
Out of ball and powder, deer still alive and didn't want it to suffer the few minutes it had or whatever I used the trade rifle as a "club butt" you could say.  The rifle wasn't happy, I know it was stupid to do but I hate to see anything suffer.

Offline longcruise

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2008, 03:05:24 AM »
Daryl, I broke a TC stock but had to dropp it 12 feet out of a tree stand to do it!

Have had two rifles crack at the lock bolt and finally realized that prevention is the key so have since glass bedded all by barrels/tangs so as to send the recoil where it belongs.
Mike Lee

Offline Pete G.

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2008, 05:06:13 AM »
I have seen a LOT of older guns with a crack at the rear lock bolt. I think it happens when over time the barrel sets back from recoil. Eventually it will set back far enough to whack the rear bolt, which in turn causes the crack.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 06:41:43 PM »
Out of ball and powder, deer still alive and didn't want it to suffer the few minutes it had or whatever I used the trade rifle as a "club butt" you could say.  The rifle wasn't happy, I know it was stupid to do but I hate to see anything suffer.

Thats why I carry a knife and usually pistol of some sort.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2008, 06:44:42 PM »
I have seen a LOT of older guns with a crack at the rear lock bolt. I think it happens when over time the barrel sets back from recoil. Eventually it will set back far enough to whack the rear bolt, which in turn causes the crack.

Loading forces can do this as well.
Or over tightening the lock bolt.
Set back will also appear that the rear of the tang if it occurs.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline G-Man

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2008, 10:33:01 PM »
 A friend of mine broke the wrist on his .36 walnut stocked Tennessee rifle while trying to seat a tightly patched load.  Many slim wristed orginal Tennessee guns with small caliber, heavy barrels I've seen have cracked wrists and I've often wondered if this occurred during loading - you wouldn't expect much recoil on guns like this.

One day on the range at Friendship about 15 years back (not during a national shoot) there was a lady shooting with a group about 50 yards away from me.  I heard a really odd sounding "crack" followed by a "thud" and then a wail.  She had shot her ramrod downrange by accident,  got knocked down and her face bruised by the recoil, and dropped the gun.   Not sure if it broke from the recoil or when dropped but whatever the cause it did a number on it  - the gun was split - sort of twisted and splintered - from the lock mortice down to though the wrist. She was OK but real upset - I think it was a brand new custom rifle. 

Guy

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: how did you break your gun?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2008, 11:27:40 PM »
Here is still another way to snap one off at the wrist!!  30 yrs ago or thereabouts, at a rondy in s/e Pa. there was a 'shooter' that couldn't shoot too well and he was blaming the beautiful girl he was shootin!  As I recall it was a fine carved engraved etc flint long rifle.  Several times he came backto his loading table and pounded said rifle upon the ground butt first.  (Actually his butt should have been pounded into the ground >:()    After several carryings on like this the rifle finally shattered in to 2 pieces.  He turned kinda gray in the face and I walked a rather large circle around him. I recall him walking up the hill towards his truck with half a rifle in one hand and the other half in the other!!   Haven't seen the guy since! ::)