Boulton rifle.

[Michael]

American made copy of a English Pattern Trade Rifle. Produced by the Boulton Rifle Works in Penn. Made for trade in the NW.

[les1946]

Cheers for the info Micheal.

[Jim Kibler]

American made copy of a English Pattern Trade Rifle. Produced by the Boulton Rifle Works in Penn. Made for trade in the NW.

Michael,

May I ask how you came to this conclusion?

Jim

[Michael]

Jim,

My source is "Proceedings of the 1984 Trade Gun Conference" sponsored by the Arthur C. Parker Fund for Iroquois Research. Part 2 Selected Papers
Published by the Rochester Museum & Science Center
657 East Avenue, Rochester, New York 14603

Article by George Shumway beginning on page 11 through page 49. George presents a cronological history of Indian Trade Rifles produced by the Board of Trade for sale in Canada and the US. Included are the American copies of English trade rifles and English copies of American trade rifles.

Shumway goes into great detail about these rifles and presents a letter system for following their development. Much like the letter system for smoothbore trade guns. He has many illustrations to accompany and identify the various models. I highly recomend this publication for anyone interested in trade rifles.

Michael

[Dan'l 1946]

  Les, is the bore actually rifled? Because your gun looks like a great many late flintlock era  English fowlers I've seen.
                                    Dan

[James Rogers]

How have we established that this is a rifle. The OP stated the bore is 3/4 but never confirmed rifling.
I might need more ejumacashun but all I see is an English made shotgun.
 

[Don Stith]

Armstrong just got to the moon without benefit of a booster rocket. How did we get a typical English shotgun transformed to an Indian trade gun , rifled or otherwise.
Sorry, just could not be as tactful as Jim and James.

[Jim Kibler]

Michael,

You have referenced an article, but provided no more evidence than before to make me believe it is anything but an ordinary English shotgun.  Given the extreme similarity to thousands of English guns of this time period, what can you provide to convince me this is an American made gun?  Given the fact Boulton has been identified as a Birmingham maker in the appropriate time period, that is little evidence in my view.  Make me believe your point!

Jim

[T*O*F]

Given the fact Boulton has been identified as a Birmingham maker in the appropriate time period, that is little evidence in my view.

Not to mention that no one has even asked to view the proof marks on the bottom of the barrel and the Boulton signature is nothing remotely like those stamped on American Boulton guns.

[spgordon]

...and the Boulton signature is nothing remotely like those stamped on American Boulton guns.

I think this is the key point: I don't know of any Henry gun made in Boulton that doesn't have the Henry name as well as "Boulton" on the stamp on the lock. Does anybody else?

I'm sure the Shumway article, which I've not seen, discusses the guns made at Boulton, PA, for the Indian trade. But since it's clear there was also a Birmingham maker who stamped locks "Boulton," what is the evidence that this is a PA rather than a UK gun?

[Collector]

... But since it's clear there was also a Birmingham maker who stamped locks "Boulton," what is the evidence that this is a PA rather than a UK gun?

Answer: Absolutely none. 

In fact, there's nothing even vaguely curious about this piece, at all.

[les1946]

Hi to you all.
As you I know nothing about guns but I confirm it is a smooth bore barrel.
I can't believe the interest this gun has attracted and am glad to read all your comments.
Thanks
Les

[Michael]

My appologies to everone for clouding the water. I stand corrected. I was wrong, as usual   Last post from me, going into lurk mode.  Auf Wiedersehen!