Author Topic: Gold Damacine/guilding  (Read 3972 times)

Offline Dave B

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Gold Damacine/guilding
« on: September 23, 2012, 07:03:36 PM »
Maybe this is the wrong discription for this type of gold work but It was a long while back I had posted about this topic and referred to Painting on a gold design using a solution of mercury and gold. I had seen a pistol that had its barrel decorated in this manor at a gun show but had no camera to take pictures of it. I have found an example that you can preview on Herman Historica that has the same appearance as the one I had seen. The wobbles in the lines tell the tail I believe. it is in  lot #2115
http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/onlinekatalogeneu/schusswaffenneu.html
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 07:06:09 PM by Dave B »
Dave Blaisdell

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 08:13:17 PM »
http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/onlinekatalogeneu/schusswaffenneu.html

Yeah, that probably is painted on, then the mercury baked off. Very toxic, don't try this at home.

Real damascening, as I understand it, is a process of roughing the surface into microscopic barbs, overlaying the gold, and burnishing it down into the barbed surface. Then it can be engraved, detailed, etc, and even fire blued, if you wish.

That pistol is a cheapo job. Hahahaha.
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Online T*O*F

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 08:58:59 PM »
Quote
Yeah, that probably is painted on, then the mercury baked off.
Tom,
I don't think so.  The center pictures allows magnification.  There is substantial engraving and punching on the overlays.  If it was just a wash, it would be so thin that those deep details wouldn't be possible.  It would cut right thru it.  Also, the straight lines are wavy because they have been punched and are not a result of an irregular gold wash.
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Online Jim Kibler

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 09:02:59 PM »
Quote
Yeah, that probably is painted on, then the mercury baked off.
Tom,
I don't think so.  The center pictures allows magnification.  There is substantial engraving and punching on the overlays.  If it was just a wash, it would be so thin that those deep details wouldn't be possible.  It would cut right thru it.  Also, the straight lines are wavy because they have been punched and are not a result of an irregular gold wash.

I'm with Tom and Dave.  I think it was engraved FIRST and then the gold wash applied and burnt off.  Blueing might have been done in the same heating cycle.  The nature of the gold shapes edges etc, really look like paint strokes to me.  I remember you mentioning this in the past Dave.  I'd not seen this before and questioned it.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline Dave B

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2012, 10:10:44 PM »
Some of the complex paterns I have seen repeated on some of the pistol barrels obique sides make me wonder if they didn't use a silk screen to apply it  then fire the barrel for the bluing.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline kutter

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 12:23:33 AM »
To me it looks like damascene work. I think that's the right word,,hope it's spelled OK..
Done by roughing up the steel surface and then hammering and/or burnishing the gold down onto it.
Details in the gold added at that time. Then blued (fire or charcoal blued)

The 'rough-up' is extremely fine on the best work. Done from 3 directions it creates teeth to impale the soft gold onto.  The gold can be wire,,they call it 'thread' in damascene work,,and is of diameters most engravers wouldn't think of using for inlay work. Just a few .000" in diameter in some cases for line and detail work.

Larger areas to be covered can be done with what can be best described as gold leaf. The sheet stock you work with is so very thin because you need nothing to fill a cut/undercut void as in common inlay work.
Easily hammered out from thicker stock by the worker when and as needed right at the bench.

The effect of the final work is generally to appear as an inlay that is flush with the steel surface.  So ultra thin is the key to the gold work and the attaching teeth.

Some work is all done with the small diameter wire. Building a larger area by winding the wire around in the shape desired right on the surface, burnishing in as you go. It's pieces of the wire laying side by side or around like a coiled rope, but done right the joints won't show.

The rough-up is generally done to an entire area with in a border on a piece.
The the gold is laid onto the 'teeth' carefully. It will grab and hold where you place it!, there is little room for 'moving things around' so it's a very precise, tedious work.  
Figures and shapes can be oversize and then carefully graver trimmed to final shape once they are on the surface.

The spurs showing outside of a free standing overlay can be planished  flat,,gold, steel teeth and all to return the steel to a polish appearance. The spurs showing in the voids in the work or even around the edges can be left there and often are.
They appear very dark, almost black in color even on polished steel because of the total shadow they cast and are used as a background element to the art.

(The same technique is used to shade figures both inlayed and cut.)

The teeth spurs will some times be seen spikeing through the thin gold, especially after the pieces are blued.
The fewer the better as far as quality of the work. You shouldn't have to level the roughened area to remove any overly long barbs before the gold is applied. Doing so will dull the surface and load it up with dirt and grit anyway making the effectivness of the surface to grip the gold much less.
Carefull workmanship is the key.
Heat blue, charcoal blue, ect were common finish techniques.

Details on the gold itself were mostly placed with punches though some very light cuts are possible. More of a burnish cut than a sliceing one.  There is little thickness to work with.

Properly done, it's a secure way to attach the overlay metal. If the rough-up isn't done right, it'll start to come apart,,especially after bluing/finishing and some handling.

I've used the same technique for attaching my gold work inlay and overlay work for the past 35+ years.
Before that I was cutting flat stock out to size and inlaying it for figures. Very time consuming and tedious.
It's not rare for engravers to use it in attaching inlays. Some use it as added insurance along with under cuts and dovetails to hold the metal in place,,others use it exclusively. How well the area is prepared makes all the difference in it's effectiveness.

As always there's different tricks and ways to doing this work but that's the basics of it. I've done a little of it (new work) over the years and have restored and repaired more of it, especially on Spanish cartridge firearms.
Some of it was fantastic work,,very highest of quality workmanship. Others, not so good,,and some I've seen was down right crude.

Sorry for the long post...

 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 01:21:08 AM by kutter »

Offline Captchee

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Re: Gold Damacine/guilding
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 06:11:40 AM »
  i would say its  mercury amalgam silvering  / gilding .
 I don’t think gold leaf or  for that mater  Damascus  work . If it was it should be much nicer in the  way the gold work meets the serounding areas   or its a pretty poor job  if it is

With amalgam you still get the engraved look because its done prior  and  because its not a very thick process “ in most cases “  the engraving stays sharp .
 Also if not done carefully , you get this painted wash look to the edges . Which is what I see especially in the boarder work . Where if the gold was actually cut in and bedded , these edges should be crisp and clean  even if cut in poorly.
also if some of the gold was now missing , you would see the bed cuts , which i dont see .

I posted this link some time back . but if you watch the series  you will see both the amalgam and inlay work and how its done. start to finish 
http://www.youtube.com/user/ironbrush?v=wGMj7o6AwnM&lr=1
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 06:28:46 AM by Captchee »