N. Hawk "Barn Rifle".

[SPG]

Gentlemen,

Having recently studied the work of Nicholas Hawk, and developing even more of an appreciation for his outstanding work, I was intrigued by a comment by Don Getz in one of the earlier threads on the possibility of a Hawk "barn rifle".

Is this, given the high amount of finish on existing examples, a pure "fantasy" idea?

Mr. Shipman has done such a fine job on the N. Hawk bench copy, his thoughts on a Plain Jane Hawk would be very interesting, especially on the topics of proper lock and hardware.

Thanking you for your thoughts in advance,

Steve

[Don Getz]

Steve........yes, it somewhat a fantasy rifle,  but, on the other hand, maybe not.   It is not extremely unusual to find a
Lehigh "barn gun".   I think there were more so called "barn guns" made in Lehigh and Berks county than any other
school.   When I build a barn gun I am not concerned about it being PC, heck, I even did one architecturally like a Christian's  Spring gun, with steel hardware, how far off the beaten path  can you go.  It was also done in 60 cal., you
would have loved it....ha......Don

[SPG]

Don,

I agree...the Plain Jane working rifles were pretty well used up, in my opinion. I'm visualizing a market hunter walking into Hawk's shop saying he needed a no-frills rifle in a hurry, and he wanted one by Hawk because of his reputation for building a good gun. I don't think Nick would turn down the order...he was in the business of making rifles for money, after all.

Of course, we may be criticized by some as merely "inventing" a reason to build a rifle of which there is no surviving example. This doesn't bother me as much as some because I do think that one is allowed use a reasonable amount of common sense, and I really do believe that the art-form is not static and encased by boundaries dictated by only copying existing work. I'm well aware that this is a slippery slope and we must tread carefully, however...

Steve

[rich pierce]

I like watching the slippery slope from a distance lol.  But I admire guys who work out of the box and make it look right, and Don's guns look right.

Shumway featured an early, plain Lehigh smooth rifle from the 1770's in one of his Muzzle Blasts articles in the 80's and it's a big horse of a gun, one that would be great to use for inspiration if you like Lehighs from a generation earlier than Hawk.

[Acer Saccharum]

The slope is now well greased.

Please step forward, Mr. Getz.

[cmac]

Don,  do you have any pictures of that Christians springs barn gun?

[Don Getz]

Right now I don't have any pictures.  I sold it to a friend and he just keeps it in his house, doesn't even shoot it.   I will
tell him to bring it back and will get some pictures, it is kind of a neat gun.........Don

[MarkEngraver]

It seems to me that all guns start out as "barn guns" ,so to speak.
The shape and architecture of a "school" or maker in it's simplest form ..... nothing to detract ... bare bones.

Then we take that basic form and add patchboxes and carving and accents and engraving and other niceties to fancy it up it and PRESTO ! , you have the golden age rifle !

The big term here is "Architecture", this is what has been stressed in the various critiques that have been presented on the forum. The "Barn Gun" might be the greatest  teacher for that !?

Give it a go Steve, strip Nicholas Hawk down to the bare form !
I don't see it as all that slippery, and you can always add the "foo fer raw" later !

Mark

[B Shipman]

You see the plainest rifles made by makers who are known for fine work. Beck , Armstrong ect. Some may have a buttplate and TG but nothing else. Why not a Hawk.

[SPG]

Gentlemen,

My thoughts exactly...proper lines and good architecture on a plain "using" rifle. I'm determined to give it go.

Along the lines of this conversation...

I recently purchased a Don King flint rifle that he made for a friend. Said friend wanted a "plain, working man's rifle, early Lancaster style, no bells or whistles." It is being shipped as I write this, so I haven't really seen the rifle yet.

This is a classic, albeit modern, example of a master 'smith catering to a customer. Don at the time was turning out some of his finest, most elaborate work, yet when a customer wanted a plain gun, he didn't tell him to go elsewhere.

If I can cipher out this devil-box I will post photos when it comes in...

Steve

[okieboy]

 I think Mark's comments are very good. In a plain rifle there is nothing to distract the eye from line and architecture; the handling of curves and transitions have no where to hide. Your plain rifle may end up generating more honest viseral impact than its dolled up sisters.
 Also I think building plain is a far less slippery slope than the unrestained decoration that seems to get no criticism.   

[Kermit]

I think building plain is a far less slippery slope than the unrestained decoration that seems to get no criticism.   

Boy, isn't that the truth!

[t.caster]

OMG, now Don's making barn guns so beautiful....they are too nice to take outdoors! What's this world coming too?
I say if you like the idea of a barny, go ahead and do it! Who care what county it is from? Just get the architecture right and it's golden!

[deano]

Hey SPG, I think I have some older brass castings for a Nicholas Hawk copy laying around in the shop if you decide to add a butt plate and guard to your simple gun.

My tastes in rifle guns has evolved a bit in a different direction.

Ken

[Hungry Horse]

 Here's my two cents, I think a lot of barn guns got upgraded by unscrupulous dealers back when the Kentucky collector craze first started. I just suspect gunsmiths made a lot more working guns, than high art guns. Surviving examples in several schools don't reflect this, so collector upgrades seem likely.
 My old friend Tall Pine built a Bedford barn gun without a trigger guard years ago. The trigger was formed to the contour of the wrist, and was activated by squeezing it rather than pulling it. It was ban from a couple of rendezvous, because people just weren't ready for a gun with no trigger guard. It shot beautifully, and even collected a nice whitetail for him up in Oregon.

                   Hungry Horse

[cheyenne]

Don,  do you have any pictures of that Christians springs barn gun?

Being a fan of your 'Barn Guns' Don, I'd love to see some photos of it too!

[Bob Roller]

 Me too. I have been wanting to see what one of these look like
for along time so some pictures would be muchly appreciated.

Bob Roller

[Daryl]

Gentlemen,

My thoughts exactly...proper lines and good architecture on a plain "using" rifle. I'm determined to give it go.

Along the lines of this conversation...

I recently purchased a Don King flint rifle that he made for a friend. Said friend wanted a "plain, working man's rifle, early Lancaster style, no bells or whistles." It is being shipped as I write this, so I haven't really seen the rifle yet.

This is a classic, albeit modern, example of a master 'smith catering to a customer. Don at the time was turning out some of his finest, most elaborate work, yet when a customer wanted a plain gun, he didn't tell him to go elsewhere.

If I can cipher out this devil-box I will post photos when it comes in...

Steve

Reminds me, of a picture and writup in Ned's book, caplockrifle - said Crocket to John Sell of Kentucky, "Yor rifles are plain, John - their only beauti is in their great power".

[PPatch]

If I can cipher out this devil-box I will post photos when it comes in...

Steve

Thank you for a hardy laugh Steve! I plan to steal it too... I'll even let you use my "Most trouble starts out as fun" line in trade. I paid dearly for that line a long time ago when I awoke and found myself in the city jail harged with disorderly conduct and a massive hangover. Raw youth gone stupid on John Barleycorn - lying there I thought "Well, last night sure started out fun but d**n! That thought evolved into what became my motto "Remember Dave - Most trouble starts out as fun."

Thanks again for the laugh.

[Don Getz]

I went down to Myerstown to Mac Spencer's show.  I saw a Lehigh barn gun, architecturally very good.  No buttplate,
sideplate, entry pipe, nor nosecap.   I was told that this gun came out of the Hershey museum.  Funny thing about that.
My brotheer Dick did an inventory of the Hershey museum and he told me about this gun, funny how these things come
around..........Don