Hammer help

[T*O*F]

I'm getting kinda twitchy on this one.  I need to close the arc on the hammer by about 3/16ths.  It hits the nipple at about a 45 degree angle and the lip of the nose hits the base of the nipple.  Normally, I would just put it in the vise with lead jaws and squash it shut.  Already tried that.  It sits good in this old vise, but the nose starts to collapse when tightened.  I'm afraid if I heat it it will accentuate the problem even more.  I would also have to remove the lead insert on the bottom jaw which would probably result in checker marks on the backside.

Anybody got a novel solution?

[Bob Roller]

You might make a plug that is a "tap in"fit to the cup in the hammer
and then slowly  compress it as shown with that big vise.That looks like
a hammer for the Davis lock used by Don Brown on his Alex Henry rifles.

Bob Roller

[bgf]

Can you reinforce the nose with a small piece of rod (inserted in the cup) while you have it in the vice?  If cold, super glue should hold it in long enough to bend the hammer.  Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

[JDK]

It appears as though your vise jaws are removable.  If that is the case then the backs should be smooth and uncheckered and they are reversable.  That should solve at least one problem.

Good Luck, J.D.

[T*O*F]

Good idea, Bob.  You nailed the lock except it's on Art's Rigby which is nearing completion.

[Acer Saccharum]

Intense heat right at the bend is the trick. Oxy Acet will do that.

That's a lot or arc to squish in just that one spot. Hammer may look really strange. Can you cut hammer apart, remove some arm, and re-weld?

[T*O*F]

Tom,
That would be my last act of desperation given its end use.  And I haven't found anyone good enough around here to weld it.  They have trouble just filling holes.  However, I might try heat with Bob's plug if it doesn't work cold after I flip the jaws around to the smooth side.

Every little idea helps.

[Bob Roller]

The plug in sync with the oxyacetelene just might do the trick.
I have seen a number of percussion hammers with radical curves
to meet a specific contour or nipple seat.Also have a foundry sample
of an English hammer but comparing it to the Alex Henry hammer I have,
it is "Iffy"or "Maybe.I can send it to you and if it works,it will cost you
what I paid for it which was about  $5.

Bob Roller

[T*O*F]

Thunderstorms rolling in so I have to shut everything down.  Will take another run at it in the morning.

Bob, I have one spare AH hammer if this one messes up.  Does your foundry hammer have the axle hole in it.  I've got a couple of other English hammers but they are clocked wrong.  I'll let you know.

[Acer Saccharum]

T*O*F, what's the throw? I'll look to see if I have something suitable in my parts bin.

[smylee grouch]

I had a simmiler problem and cut half way through the wide part of hammer and squeesed the crack shut then welded the over the crack. I had to do some file work to make the hammer look right but it worked out and still works ok.

[Roger Fisher]

A lot can be done inside that cup with a dremel.  If you do not concern yourself with how it would look from a side view..  I have the feeling that you would concern yourself with that.

[mark esterly]

slip a worn out 12 point socket over the nose or something similar. same principle as a tube bender

[Bob Roller]

 The English hammer has a small hole of about 1/8" drilled thru it
  but nothing more. It is 1.812" from the center of the hole to the center
of the hammer cup. This was measured with a steel ruler,not a "Verynear"
caliper.

Bob Roller

[Dave B]

I think the use of the stud inside the cup and the fitting of a sleeve tube over the out side of the nose  to bind it all together for the vice to purchase on. trade out the lead for brass sheet or copper. Spot heat that right at the crook and your home free. I have the same  lock and hammer. I found a 11/32 drill bit was a snug fit into the cup and the sleeve will have to be a smidge under a half inch to have the grip right.

[Dave B]

Re reading your discription I think the point of contact of the nipple in the cup is not the center of the face of the hammer but to the upper part of the face. Is that correct? If you bend the neck of the hammer you will shorten the stroke length of the hammer that will require the forging out the flat portion to off set this. Or you could file the bottom flat of the square hole in the hammer and shim the amount removed from the the other side effectively bringing the hammer face to bear centered on the nipple and on the same axis as well. The shim can be silver soldered in place or tig welded. I had a Hawken that required a longer stroke length and I used the cross pean to stretch the  length of the shank.

[mark esterly]

tof
   i don't think the hammer would look right closed up 3/16". i know it's more work but what about closing up the square hole and re-cutting it to set the hammer  where it needs to be. just a thought and i ain't the brightest bulb in the pack.

[T*O*F]

Re reading your discription I think the point of contact of the nipple in the cup is not the center of the face of the hammer but to the upper part of the face. Is that correct?

Dave, not correct.  The nipple was at the very back of the cup.  The side panels of these guns are tapered front to rear.  The lock goes in tipped as it remains flush at the front of the drip bar, but recedes back as it fits into the standing breech.  Since both the standing breech and the lock bolster are flat and square, the vertical of the lock bolster must be tapered; otherwise there would be a gap where they meet.  Tapering the bolster closes the gap, but effectively changes the hammer throw because the lock moves forward a bit during the process.  Hence, the hammer must then be adjusted to the new throw.

Intense heat right at the bend is the trick. Oxy Acet will do that.
That's a lot or arc to squish in just that one spot.

Tom, it has been my experience several times that concentrating heat at a particular point almost guarantees a crack.  The whole arc has to be uniformly heated so the bend is evenly distributed over the arc and any bending is done in successive steps.  I also observe that many original hammers are cracked at the bend, but don't know why as I would imagine the whole hammer was heated in a forge.

Anyway, the job was successful.  A plug was made by taking the threads off a short 3/8" bolt and it was a tap fit.  It had to be cut flush with the front of the hammer cup to fit properly in the vise.  Instead of reversing the jaws, I had a piece of flat stock that worked perfectly.  Heated it with the torch, took a half turn on the vise handle, reheated and took another half turn.  It was sufficient.  Hammer hits nipple square and clears the fence on the breech.  Annealed the whole hammer to relieve any stress.

Took longer to get the plug out than the rest of the operation.  Tapping it with a chisel gave a slight gap at the rear, but tipped it and prevented any further movement.  I ground a small wedge from drill rod, tapped it into the gap, and it finally popped out.

[Dave B]

Congrats on a successful  operation.  That particular hammer has the deepest cup I have ever run across, well done. I will be squirreling that info away for future project issues.

[Bob Roller]

 That deep cup in the hammer shrouds the nipple so when the cap blows apart
the fragments will go out thru the vent or slot in the front of that cup.

Bob Roller