Frizzen bounce back/broken flints

[curly]

I have had real problems for years now with broken or badly chipped flints, due to frizzen bounce back. I have several Durrs Egg locks that I like. They are a beautiful, fast, and very dependable, except for this bounce back problem. My Siler locks are perfect, with no problems at all. I use to oil the frizzen roller every time after I washed and cleaned the lock. Then I dipped the roller in actone, and blew it off with compressed air and the bounce back problem disappeared for about six months or so. Its back! I'd like to know if I could possibly get rid of the roller all together and just weld and shape a regular spur on the bottom of my frizzen, or any remedy that would permanently take care of this problem.

Thanks

Curly

[draken]

There was an article regarding frizzen bounce back in the Sept/Oct. 2011 issue of Muzzleloader.   Doesn't contain much information about preventing it, but you might find it helpful

[Acer Saccharum]

Try different flint positions, and bevel up or down.

You know the leather that wraps around the flint to hold it in place? Leave it long on the topside so the frizzen bouncing back doesn't smash the flint.

I've found on one particular lock that I had to put bevel UP, which said flint hit the frizzen lower down, and did not slam it open as hard. This resulted in a more shearing action, which still made yummy sparks.

While testing your lock, do this in dim light so that you can see where the sparks go. Each position will cause the sparks to land in a different spot. Ideally, they will land smack in the prime.

[Dphariss]

I have had real problems for years now with broken or badly chipped flints, due to frizzen bounce back. I have several Durrs Egg locks that I like. They are a beautiful, fast, and very dependable, except for this bounce back problem. My Siler locks are perfect, with no problems at all. I use to oil the frizzen roller every time after I washed and cleaned the lock. Then I dipped the roller in actone, and blew it off with compressed air and the bounce back problem disappeared for about six months or so. Its back! I'd like to know if I could possibly get rid of the roller all together and just weld and shape a regular spur on the bottom of my frizzen, or any remedy that would permanently take care of this problem.

Thanks

Curly

Spring may be too weak. Ramp shaped wrong or both.
There are a number of things that can cause this. The spring should take a lot of energy off the frizzen as it climbs back over to ramp that should be on the frizzen spring if the roller is on the frizzen foot. The ramp on he spring may not be high enough or shaped right. I would probably re-arch the spring to stiffen it some more then file it down a little where the roller sits with the frizzen open and/or reshape the ramp so its harder for the roller to climb back over it to to the closed position.
Easiest fix is the leather covering the top of the flint.
Roller frizzens have a far longer life for the spring and frizzen than those with no roller.
Dan

Dan

[flehto]

Had this same problem w/ an older small Siler....very critical asre flint length. Rotated the frizzen and found the toggle over angle to be 45 degrees. Then installed as  long a flint w/o holding the frizzen open and manually ran the flint down the frizzen until right at the bottom.  The resulting frizzen  open angle was 35 degrees.  Put the frizzen at 30 degrees and marked the frizzen toe position on the frizzen spring and then, using a stone wheel in the Dremel, ground a .010 high "hump" or cam on the frizzen spring at the 30 degree mark.  After polishing the "hump"....no more frizzen bounce back. This small Siler's half cock angle didn't allow a long enough flint and after a couple of knappings or flint wear, bounce back always occured......Fred

[mattdog]

Rather than apply a bandaid like a longer piece of leather do what Dan said:

Spring may be too weak. Ramp shaped wrong or both.
There are a number of things that can cause this. The spring should take a lot of energy off the frizzen as it climbs back over to ramp that should be on the frizzen spring if the roller is on the frizzen foot. The ramp on he spring may not be high enough or shaped right. I would probably re-arch the spring to stiffen it some more then file it down a little where the roller sits with the frizzen open and/or reshape the ramp so its harder for the roller to climb back over it to to the closed position

This is a proper long term fix.  Usually (in my experience, and I have confronted this many times) just strengthening the spring will work.  Be careful if you try to create a ramp.  If you go too far you won't have spring tension on the frizzen toe with the frizz. full open. 

[Jim Kibler]

In terms of design, a few other things that make a difference is the distance from the frizzen pivot to the toe or roller and how far the frizzen opens.  If you think of a line between the pivot point and tip as a lever and the spring as what applies the force, you can understand the importance of these aspects.  Seems there was a post about this a while ago.

[bgf]

My Durs Egg just did it with flints it didn't like or if they were initially positioned incorrectly on the first couple of strikes.  Softening the frizzen (drawing the temper) seemed to fix the breakage problem, probably by slowing down the cock some and the sparks look better, too.  My theory is that the flint would "crash" into the frizzen, but not dig deep enough to grab, knocking it back too fast and causing bounce-back.  Take the experts' advice first, but it might be something to look at if nothing else works.