My 1st Gun

[J Smith]

Hello everyone.
I have been interested in building muzzleloaders for a while now and after reading a few books and watching the building muzzleloaders series published by primitive arts, I am trying to decide if I should start from a kit or buy a barrel and build everything else from scratch.
Does anybody have any good suggestions for my first gun. I have been debating on a jeager or an hawkin rifle for my first project.
I have a machinist and metal working background, and so far to date, I have been able to accomplish everything that I have put my mind into.
Would anyone one of you recommend one of the chambers or track of the wolf's kit's?
Thanks,
James Smith

[Dennis Glazener]

Welcome to ALR James. I highly recommend one of Jim & Barbie Chambers kits. They both are members here and if you run into a problem, they are always happy to help out. That is if other ALR members don't beat them to it!

I have never built a true hawken but from what I understand they are very hard rifles to build,,,,,,,,Properly!

Dennis

[J. Talbert]

James,

It's been said on here many times, but it's hard to go wrong with a Chambers Kit.  I would recommend one for several reasons:
 1) Stylewise, I'm a big fan of Flintlock longrifles.  (That's just me)
 2) Top of the line architecture is built in for you.  You will likely learn certain things about longrifle architecture, after completing a Chambers kit that you hadn't noticed before.
 3) Top of the line quality components.
 4) Excellent people to deal with

 I would recommend resisting the temptation for too much decoration on the first gun.  Good lines, (a given with Chambers guns), will carry a plain gun, but poorly executed carving and engraving will detract from the finished product rather than add to it.  If you can pull it off well, then that's different, but many people try to hit a grand slam with their first attempt, and end up striking out.

Work within yourself and you'll end up with a great gun that performs as it should.

Just my 2 cents,
Jeff

[Randy Hedden]

James,

If you are considering a Hawken rifle then look at Don Stith's kits. There are no better Hawkens available.

www.donstith.com

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[Joe S]

It all depends on what you want.  I built my first gun from a stock blank, but I had the barrel inletted and the ramrod hole drilled by Dave Rase.  The gun is not perfect, but I got a lot more satisfaction out of it than I would have if I had used a precarve.

I have a suggestion for you.  Get some maple boards a couple of feet long and laminate them to the appropriate thickness.  Get a farrier’s rasp and a number 49 Nicholson rasp, and rough out the stock, lock panels and the first part of the lower forend.  By the end of one weekend, you’ll have a pretty good idea whether you want to proceed with a precarve or try building from a blank.

[rsells]

I would agree with some of the other folks and start with one of Jim's kits.  I too like Hawken rifles and have built several over the years.  They look plain, but are hard to build correctly.  I can build a fancy mountain rifle or a semi fancy Lancaster rifle in less time than a Hawken.  However, go with what your heart tells you to do, because it will keep you interested until it is completed.  Good luck.
                                                      Roger Sells

[rich pierce]

I always advise a simple and plain and less expensive build first, like a trade gun or musket.

[Dan Breitenstein]

My first rifle was a Leman. Very plain with standard architecture. It took the blue ribbon at Dixon's in 1994 in the Apprentice category. Shot my first Illinois deer with that rifle.
Build it right and keep it simple is the best advice I can give. A Hawken is tough for a first build. The architecture is odd to say the least with the side panels wider at the front than the back and the patent breech will give you indigestion that you really don't need to face on a first build. Hawkens are generally heavy, meaty guns and you don't learn much about keeping a rifle slim, as a matter of fact it can give you a tendancy to keep building heavy.
Jim Chambers makes awesome kits and his quality is way above the normal kit, but I honestly don't know how simple his kits are (styles). You might try Pecatonica River  for a more simple kit. Their quality is very good and I know you can get kits as simple as a Leman there.
Build yourself a good "using" rifle and then tackle the pretty one on down the road. Just my opinion....

[Jerry V Lape]

My first build was a Chambers kit (Isaac Haines).  Still using that rifle as my hunting rifle and highly recommend Chambers kits.  And Chambers stands behind everything he makes.   You can also get DVD of how to build these kits which will do a lot to help you learn proper construction.  (Wish they had been available when I was building my first one.)  If you don't already have some how to build reference books be sure to get them as well.  Dixon's manual is good and so are Recreating the Pennsylvania Longrifle and Gunsmiths of Greenville County.  Each covers the details of building a rifle but some points are better explained in one while other points are better in another. 

[J Smith]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.
   I have been leaning more towards a Chambers kit and that is probably what I will get. I already have a Lyman Plains Hawken that I purchased from the Baltimore Antique Gun show last year that was already assembled. I like the rifle and I have also thought about restocking it in a nicer piece of walnut. 

I am going to get something soon as the the weather is getting cold outside and if we get any snow here where I am at, I'll be snowed in here on the moutain.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
James

[Blacktail]

I've built one gun so far, an english fowler, not from Chambers. My advice to you would be to save yourself alot of trouble and go with a Chambers Issac Haines or Lancaster. Take a look at the furniture, especially the finials. Things are much simpler on either of these two and  that will be of great benefit to you for inletting.

[Buffler Razz]

My first, and so far, only, was  Chambers kit. As others have stated, first choose which style you want to build and work from there. Chambers had what I wanted and I was very pleased with my dealings with them. The quality and help making my selection was excellent. I'm sure there are many others of similar stature, my experience relates to only one.
Best of luck, let us know what you decide on and show us your progress.
Razz

[Dphariss]

Hello everyone.
I have been interested in building muzzleloaders for a while now and after reading a few books and watching the building muzzleloaders series published by primitive arts, I am trying to decide if I should start from a kit or buy a barrel and build everything else from scratch.
Does anybody have any good suggestions for my first gun. I have been debating on a jeager or an hawkin rifle for my first project.
I have a machinist and metal working background, and so far to date, I have been able to accomplish everything that I have put my mind into.
Would anyone one of you recommend one of the chambers or track of the wolf's kit's?
Thanks,
James Smith

I  recommend a Jim Chambers kit.
I would stay with a simple Kentucky format.
You need to concentrate on lines and shaping and not worry about complexity at this time.
If you have a mentor who is an experienced maker you can perhaps add some complexity.

Dan

[Seven]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I would also recommend a Chamber’s kit.  For my first rifle I ordered up a stock and parts from various different companies and once I got into it I realized I was a tiny bit over my head.  I didn’t really know where to go at various different points in the project.  I then ordered up a Chamber’s early Lancaster kit.  While it didn’t go together like Legos it did take a lot of the guess work of architecture and part placement out of the equations.  It also taught me where to look for certain things on my next builds.  And with these kits you can get as simple or as fancy as you’d like in the finishing.  Here is a picture or two of my first build, a Chamber’s early Lancaster kit done in the style of Isaac Haines, completed just a couple of months ago…

[Brian]

I also vote for a Chambers kit - and here's a bit of a suggestion.  I remember talking to Jim and Barbie once and if I remember correctly - I believe I was told that their YORK rifle kit was one they recommended for a first time kit, especially if you do not have any help handy.  I need to know because I am a novice builder.  CHECK THAT WITH BARBIE TO BE SURE - but I think that's what she said.

The good part is that their YORK is a very nice rifle! 

[Roger Fisher]

No matter what you decide on keep it simple.  You will sleep better at night

[voyageur1688]

 I am building my first gun as well and I went with the Chambers Isaac Haynes. Its a beautiful rifle and while I am using this one as my first, I at times feel that I should have started with a lower priced piece, but then I wake myself up and realize that it is better that I started with this kit as I am going the extra distance to make sure I do it right and to take my time on it. If I take my time and recheck my work often, I will end up with a sweet rifle. If I had started with a cheaper kit, I would probably have been more willing to accept a substandard end result than with this one.
 Todd