question about historical use of makers stamps cartouches etc.

[whetrock]

Can someone provide some explanation of the differences in “proof marks”, “makers marks”, “inspecter’s marks”, and various cartouche stamps in general and when they were used in the 18th c and early 19th c. (flint period). When would it be appropriate for a contemporary builder to use them? For example, if I build a barrel myself, what would be an appropriate way to mark that barrel?  If in contrast, I buy a barrel and modify it, what might I use to mark it?  Same for locks, etc.

Please note that I am asking about historical practices. (I don’t need info on how contemporary barrel makers etc mark their products.)

I have experience using stamps hot. Regarding use of stamps cold, I have seen the instructions on the TOW site re how to use such stamps with various types of barrel steel. Helpful info for those interested.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/pdfs/stamps/hand-stamp-instructions.pdf
Other tips certainly welcome!

I know that there are various books on cartouche marks, etc. I was hoping to be able to read some summary, tips, and to stimulate a little discussion on this topic. (Laid up with the flu and can't get to the shop.)

Thanks,
Whetrock

PS: opinions expected and welcome.   (Observations of antique firearms even more highly valued!)

[flintriflesmith]

As I understand it a "proof mark" is an official mark or marks showing that the barrel has been tested and passed the test for strnegth requireed by the applicable laws of that country (or region). In 18th century there were proof houses in Birmingham and London --- the proof loads and marks could be different and so were the marks. For a period the London mark was actually two marks, "P" for proved and "V" for viewed.
If you have an old Dixie Gunworks cataloge it has more on this.

Some English makers, like the Richards family added their own stamp as well. That would be a "maker's mark."

An "inspectors mark" is usually used on contracted work to show that it passed inspection. Early Colts and many military arms had them. Most are struck into the wood after the gun is completed and a good many are the actual inspectors initials.

Gary

[WadePatton]

Stamps are available here: http://www.firelockpistols.com/catalog/proofstamps.html

but i have nothing further. 

[whetrock]

Thanks for the helpful explanation, Gary.  If I understand you correctly, the "hammer in hand touch mark" you developed while at CW would be a makers mark.

Am I correct in guessing that many barrels produced by local shops in colonial America may not have born any specific marks indicating the specific steps of proofing or viewing, but that they (like your CW barrels) may have had makers marks? Barrels built in europe may have been more likely to have also had P and V marks, and so barrels imported in finished condition may have had such marks.

I realize that these generalizations may be too broad to be useful.  Just trying to piece together the puzzle.

whetrock

[whetrock]

Stamps are available here: http://www.firelockpistols.com/catalog/proofstamps.html

Thanks, Wade. Picture's worth a thousand words.
For those interested, a few additional stamp marks can be seen at
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1045/1

[flintriflesmith]

Thanks for the helpful explanation, Gary.  If I understand you correctly, the "hammer in hand touch mark" you developed while at CW would be a makers mark.

Am I correct in guessing that many barrels produced by local shops in colonial America may not have born any specific marks indicating the specific steps of proofing or viewing, but that they (like your CW barrels) may have had makers marks? Barrels built in Europe may have been more likely to have also had P and V marks, and so barrels imported in finished condition may have had such marks.

I realize that these generalizations may be too broad to be useful.  Just trying to piece together the puzzle.

whetrock

The hammer in hand mark we used while I was Master of the CWF gunshop was definitely a maker's mark and, during my time there, it was only used on hand forged barrels. There were some hand forged barrels made in the late 1960s and early 1970s before I made that mark. About 1973 or 1974 I decided we needed a way to distinguish the (optional and more expensive) hand forged work from those guns we were still producing with commercial barrels. Those hand forged barrels were proofed with a quadruple load and a single patched ball--which was the official British proof load of the period.

I don't have access to my rifle books right now but I believe the "shears" mark Shroyer sometimes used was a makers mark playing on his name in German. Other marks on some PA rifles were definitely the stamp of the barrel maker or boring mill. The barrel marks were often on the bottom of the barrel and the gunbuilders marks on the top quarter flat BUT as you said most American barrels had neither!

An entire book could be written on this subject.
Gary