Aging a barrel??

[nvandal]

Folks,
This subject has been most likely dealt with before, but maybe I can get some updated, concise advice. Here goes:
I have several old percussion guns, mostly Vermont and New Hampshire underhammer rifles. All are in excellent, shooting condition. Their barrels are aged nicely with a typical patina that I will do my best to describe. It's a very light brown with a slight bluish cast. Rubbed areas where the barrels are worn from handling are lighter or have plain steel showing through. The barrels are smooth with no rust pitting, or more importantly, nor rust surface buildup. I've seen many a reproduced barrel browning finish that almost looks painted on it's so thick, and that's far from the original finish I see on these guns, I have hands-on access to an original S. Hawken, and its barrel is essentially the same as on my underhammers. Am I describing the finish well?
If I had to make a guess, probably these guns were lightly blued, then gradually picked up a very light film of what I'd call flash rust from handling and exposure. Then, with subsequent cleanings ( not thorough ) and applications of oil, the blue became more brownish. The shinier rub areas became so with many years of handling and use. Am I way off on this?
So, my new project is a J&S Hawken. I want it to look like my old guns. Please tell me what procedure would work best. I want essentially the same finish on lock, butt plate, and other iron furniture. What is my best choice? What products should I use?
Please accept my apology is these questions are redundant. If you're skilled at this type of finish, please give me advice even if you've given it to others times before.
Thanks kindly,
Norm Vandal
Roxbury, VT

[Old Ford2]

Hello Norm,
I have had good luck in ageing barrels, by sand blasting the barrel, even sand blasting a little harder near the touch hole, or nipple area.
Be sure to plug the barrel with wooden dowel to prevent any damage to rifling.
After sand blasting "DO NOT TOUCH" with your hands. Use a clean glove to handle.
To get a good effect mount your sights ( sight gun in first ) then sand blast sights at same time as barrel.
This will give a good aged appearance, especially at the sight base and dovetail.
Brown as soon as possible after sand blasting.
After browning you can burnish the handling areas with hardwood to give a well used look.
If you have seen a Browning hawken you can see the sand blasted effect.
I believe Browning had the best reproduction finish on any replica.
Best regards
Fred

[Pete G.]

I've done a couple using Laural Mountain browning, then polish it back using 400 grit sandpaper until the corners are polished back to bare metal. Go over this with a couple of applications of cold blue, then rub that back with a green scrubbie and WD 40. Ends up looking like a barrel that was blued originally, but has turned brown with handling over the years.

[WadePatton]

The big thick brown-painted-on/parkerized look is to be avoided, I agree.

Repeated coatings with "carding" between coats is the standard basic procedure.  Card with various fine grits of paper or steel wool.  cold bluing solutions are good. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

To avoid the built up brown, you have to card off the surface rust that forms between applications of the browning solution.  I use a roll of carvas tied tightly about the middle, and use the end of the roll to scrub the barrel.  Then re-apply the solution.  It requires about 5 - 6 applications of the solution that I use.  This yields a matte brown with perfectly even coverage - ie:  no wear spots.

For a polished brown, you can use four ought steel wool to card off the rust, right down to the steel of the barrel.  The barrel gradualluy takes on the brown colour right in the steel, rather than on it.  And the finish is polished. 

I know this doesn't talk about getting the blue base, or the wear marks, but others here can provide that.

[Acer Saccharum]

The rust blue from Wahkon Bay I used on my barrel will create a brown. Once you boil the barrel, the rust goes from brown to blackish blue. Carding is the key to prevent a built-up rusty crusty finish. I used a stainless steel bristle wheel from Brownell's..it's ultra soft, .003 bristles, and does not destroy the details or erode the corners with careful use.

My question is: will a browned barrel, using regular browning solution, turn black/blue upon boiling?

[T*O*F]

My question is: will a browned barrel, using regular browning solution, turn black/blue upon boiling?

Yes, Waukhon Bay browning and bluing are essentially the same product, the difference being the boiling.  Boiling converts the oxide to a different state.

A method I have used is to cold blue the barrel.  Then swab cold bleach on it with a cotton ball.  Let it sit for a period of time, depending on the finish you desire...from 10 minutes to a couple of hours.  Best done in a warm humid environment.  Card the barrel with coarse cloth or burlap.  Next coat the barrel with linseed oil and hit it with a propane torch until it gets crusty, but not burnt.  Then hit it with fine Scotchbrite to polish everything up.  Properly done, it will look like a smooth old barrel.

[WadePatton]

TOF, i don't know if I've seen your finish work, but i do know that i have seen some that has been "chloroxed" where the result doesn't appeal to my eye. 

To That End, for the newsomes- test on hidden areas or scrap parts or be ready to strip it back to bare metal an start over eh?

Yes and i've found (quite by accident) that some cold blue solutions become cold brown solutions when left on the metal in high humidity environment for a few days.

[Mark Elliott]

Hey Tom,  what kind of setup do you use to boil your barrels?

[Acer Saccharum]

I have an iron(steel) tank I picked up somewhere, and I put it over two twin burner Coleman stoves. They generate lots of heat. I made the mistake of using a pine cover that had knots in it. The wood got hot enuff for the resin to melt...and drip into the tank..resin floating on top, got on the tank and barrel...ugh. Had to clean everything up and start all over.

[pake]

A length of galvanized rain gutter with soldered end caps works well for a boiling tank.

pake

[rich pierce]

I've used an end post for a chainlink fence, vertically.  Filled it with boiling water, emptied it to warm it up, filled with more boiling water, then put the gun barrel in it and played with a torch to make it boil some more.  Worked fine.

[Don Stith]

Hello Norm,
I have had good luck in ageing barrels, by sand blasting the barrel, even sand blasting a little harder near the touch hole, or nipple area.
Be sure to plug the barrel with wooden dowel to prevent any damage to rifling.
After sand blasting "DO NOT TOUCH" with your hands. Use a clean glove to handle.
To get a good effect mount your sights ( sight gun in first ) then sand blast sights at same time as barrel.
This will give a good aged appearance, especially at the sight base and dovetail.
Brown as soon as possible after sand blasting.
After browning you can burnish the handling areas with hardwood to give a well used look.
If you have seen a Browning hawken you can see the sand blasted effect.
I believe Browning had the best reproduction finish on any replica.
Best regards
Fred

FWIW
 Browning used a hot caustic bath,similar to hot bluing, to do their browning. Don't believe they sand blasted unless it was an exceedingly fine grit.

[nvandal]

Folks,
Thanks all for your advice. The response that seems to make the most sense to me is to first brown the barrel, rub it down removing some browning, followed by application of cold blue. I have done some repairs on my own guns and have used a similar process. The boiling method sounds interesting, but too complicated, and my concern is twofold: 1. that it would give too uniform a finish 2. that I would screw it up!
In making period furniture and in repairing antiques, it's always the base coat that matters. Funny thing though, the base coats often looks nothing like the finished product.
Pete G: What cold blue brand product do you use?
I'll keep y'all posted when I give it a shot...
Again, thanks,
Norm Vandal

[Hungry Horse]

 For boiling barrels, when rust blueing, I use a tin chicken feeder, from the feed store, that I put over the three burners of my Camp Chef Expedition 3 camp stove.
 When I want light salt, and pepper, rust patterns on an aged barrel, I polish the barrel good, and cold blue it, where I want light pitting. Then I submerge it in another tank I made from a piece of 4" pvc pipe with the ends capped, and the top 1/4th cut away to allow the barrel to be lowered into the tank. I plug the bore, and submerge the barrel in chlorine bleach. This produces some dangerous fumes so either do it outside, or have some type of ventilation system. This is easy to overdo, so try it on some old cut off barrel ends, or something first.
 I use Birchwood Casey plum Brown to accent the pitting. You can leave it brown, or boil it in the chicken feeder and turn it into rust blueing. The brown can be easily rubbed back with fine steel wool, to get the effect you desire. The rust blueing is a lot tougher to rub back, but it can be done.

                         Hungry Horse

[Dphariss]

The rust blue from Wahkon Bay I used on my barrel will create a brown. Once you boil the barrel, the rust goes from brown to blackish blue. Carding is the key to prevent a built-up rusty crusty finish. I used a stainless steel bristle wheel from Brownell's..it's ultra soft, .003 bristles, and does not destroy the details or erode the corners with careful use.

My question is: will a browned barrel, using regular browning solution, turn black/blue upon boiling?

Yes.
The boiling coverts red iron oxide to black iron oxide.
I have blued barres by using Plumb Brown then boilng.
I use degreased 0000 steel wool to card loose rust.
Dan

[WadePatton]

...

My question is: will a browned barrel, using regular browning solution, turn black/blue upon boiling?

Yes.
The boiling coverts red iron oxide to black iron oxide.
I have blued barres by using Plumb Brown then boilng.
...

good info thanks. 

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

This may seem like a no-brainer for some of you, but I was wondering how you protect the bore from chemicals and boiling, and such. You can jam a piece of wood into the bore that's easy, but what about the Touch Hole? If you're using a liner with a built in taper inside a tooth pick in the hole isn't going to be very secure. You can't wait to install this because when you file it down, there goes your hard aquired barrel finish. So how do you do it??