Southern rifle ideas?

[54ball]

cmac,

  A Kings Mountain or Over the Mountain Man type of rifle would make a very interesting southern rifle.  For this I would use the Early Ketland.

  At Kings Mountain and on their pamphlets they show a very early type rifle with a grease hole.

  As rifles from this region and time "1780" "Carolina Back Country" are documented but very rare, if any exist at all, your kind of on your own with design.  I would do some research and develop a well thought out interpretation.

[cmac]

If I make it a southern rifle it will have a grease hole or a pivoting wooden box, and forged iron mounts. If I make it a Lancaster no box and brass mounts. Still stuck on the planning stage

[flintriflesmith]

A Lancaster "barn gun" with no butt plate? Those may be as rare as early southern rifles! In curly ash? Rarer still.

Lancaster County was a very wealthy area in the 18th century and had, obviously, a strong Germanic rifle culture. I wonder just how many of the rifles folks identify as flint period barn guns are actually late 19th century restocks of earlier parts.

Build one if it suits but don't sweat too much over making it period correct to 1780-90. ...Unless Don Getz has a collection of examples that have not yet been published.
Gary

[Don Tripp]

An advantage to reshaping that Large Siler is that the L&R double throated cock fits the the large Siler tumbler and the  works  great

that would give you an unique looking lock

Is this the double throat cock for their late English lock? I did some research on that one and the goose neck cock for the same lock and their throw is 1.5" which is the same throw as the improved Siler cock that Chambers makes for the right handed Siler, whereas the original Siler and left hand Siler throw is 1.42"

[JoeG]

Is this the double throat cock for their late English lock? I did some research on that one and the goose neck cock for the same lock and their throw is 1.5" which is the same throw as the improved Siler cock that Chambers makes for the right handed Siler, whereas the original Siler and left hand Siler throw is 1.42"

It is the  double throat cock for their late English lock. I've only used it on right hand  Siler locks
I put one on an original Siler many years ago and the throw works perfect. The cock fit on the tumbler like it was made for it.

[JCKelly]

Cowan's Auction for April 2011 had a good selection of Southern rifles for sale. Photos are still available, under American History,  Historic Firearms. Better photos than you will find in published rifle books.

http://www.cowansauctions.com/auctions/catalog.aspx?SaleId=197&Page=2

Yes I regret not bidding on No. 34, 38, &c, &c

[cmac]

Yes I saw the rifles on Cowan's. Some nice old stuff!

[54ball]

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14832.msg139376#msg139376

[Don Getz]

Gary............no, I don't have a secret cache of lancaster "barn guns", I do have a long waiting list.  I have made a stock
pattern which is kind of a generic lancaster gun, straight comb, straight under the buttstock, with a 44" barrel inlet and
a siler inlet.   Have built a number of guns using this pattern, I don't care if one like it was ever made or not, they feel
good, make a great hunting gun, and are reasonably priced.    I have been using one of Reaves trigger guards, No. 10,
on a lot of these guns.  However, I have made some by using a Berks county guard and changiing the shape of the comb
to resemble a Haga.    I have also done some with a curve in the bottom line of the butt, and lengthening the wrist by
shortening the comb.   A fun gun to build and it doesn't take months to do it.   By the way, I met a friend of yours who
just returned from Afganistan....Eric Talken.    I met him on the internet, sent him some Muzzle Blasts, Muzzloader , and
other sporting magazines to enjoy while spending time over "there".     See you at Dixon's....hopefully.  At 79 I enjoy just
being seen........Don

[JCKelly]

54Ball, that "110213-1 Southern" looks like the maker was a skilled smith who copied a cast brass guard exactly in iron.
Reasonable design for forgings differs from designs intended to be made as a casting. For the last 3,000 years or so iron has been cheaper than copper alloys. Iron smelting is a less complicated operation than the steps needed to take a copper-sulfur ore, roast it to remove the sulfur, then reduce it to metal. Then one must find the zinc to finally make brass (or tin for bronze).
My guess would be yes, this is a very early mountain rifle made by a guy accustomed to using brass castings but who used iron because that's what was available.
Generally I suspect iron was used in Southern rifles because it was locally available, i.e. less expensive. The iron hardware design differs from cast brass hardware in part because it made more sense if the thing was to be forged.
Just musing.

[WadePatton]

Wasn't Durs Egg an Englishman that learned his trade of lock making in Switzerland? ...
If anyone has better info on Durs Egg,please post it beause I am relying on a sketchy memory of something I read.

Everything i have seen claims that Durs Egg was a born Swiss, moved to England, made locks in England.  I too would love to see better documentation (no disrespect to Mr. Roller).

With Regard To (WRT) the following, just because it is printed, does not make it correct. If someone has better info, Wiki can be edited (i did such onced)

from Wiki:

Durs Egg (1748–1831) was a Swiss-born British gunmaker, noted for his flintlock pistols and for his company's production of the Ferguson rifle.

Egg was apprenticed in Solothurn and Paris before establishing his own business in London in 1772. He was a contemporary of Joseph Manton and the uncle of Joseph Egg

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durs_Egg emphasis added

Solothurn (Switzerland), Paris, London...that boy got around.

+++++

And hey, let's talk Southern Rifle Locks ... what else can be added to this conversation?

It can be confusing needing a "late English" to put on a "Early TN".  Seems that TN Early/Late is a whole 'nuther thing that Colonial early/late.  (i'm getting it-slowly).  I've now focused Early TN/Southern, as the late stuff is all over the place.