Author Topic: Fire danger from roundball patches  (Read 12881 times)

vtnunter52

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2013, 05:57:41 AM »
While I've found no signs of smoldering patches with the prelubed  ones that I've been using, anything can happen at any time.  Years ago I helped teach a forest-fire course at the forestry school at UVM, and can say that it was hard enough to extinguish  the controlled fires we started, I wouldn't want to be involved with the wild fires that you in the west suffered from this year.  My opinion would be to stay out of the woods under these conditions.

Dogshirt

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2013, 07:26:21 AM »
I agree about doing something else when conditions are very bad.  I'll switch to a Colt 45 with lead bullets instead.  Or I'll just wander around with my longbow, although now my targets in the forest are all burned to ash.  Rabbit brush and Mulleins were very good targets for a rubber blunt.  I would just pick a spot and shoot and I could see if my arrow went through that spot.

Now, in the burn area, with all of the grass and ground cover gone, there are thousands more rocks visible and they are all blackened by the fire, so I pick a spot on a rock and shoot a lead bullet at it.  Splat!  I can see a lead spot where I hit.

Strange thing about this forest fire was that it ran through the treetops, dropping burning embers here and there and the fire itself created its own weather, so you'll see a big patch of burn area, then a patch of green, then burn, etc.  The only thing really predictable is that you do not want to be uphill from a fire.

Where was your fire? We had some bad ones in Washington this year!

Crossed Arrows

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2013, 09:27:48 AM »
Dogshirt (had to double check my spelling on that) I live in the northern part of Colorado, in the canyon of the Cache La Poudre River, about 20 NW of Fort Collins, CO.

We  had 2 serious fires in the summer.  The first started in May just across the river from my home and burned about 20,000 acres north and east.  A fool professor from CSU was careless with his campfire, but got away with it.  The second fire started in June about 6 miles SW of me and ran through the treetops, causing us to evacuate late that night and we could not return for 5 weeks.  By the time that fire was out, it had burned about 90,000 acres but our home was spared.  If you can imagine a clockface as the burn area, I live in the middle of the face with a radius of over 10 miles around me that has been burned, with some green areas here and there.  Our next challenge will be flashfloods because the 45 degree hillsides cannot stop or slow down a heavy rainfall.  The Chinese have a saying: "May you live in interesting times."

However, my wife and I are healthy and prepared, so this too shall pass.


Offline James Wilson Everett

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 03:00:48 PM »
Guys,

This brings to mind an experience I had many years ago.  I just finished making a rifle barrel and proof tested it just outside the gunshop.  As a back stop, just a few feet from the muzzle, I had a large pile of very old locust fence posts.  Later that night my wife announced that my shop was on fire!  Apparently the spark from the patch started a fire in the old locust logs after several hours.  There was no brush or leaf litter around, either.  I would bet the house that a hot patch from a muzzle loader could not start a fire directly in the 100 year old logs, but it did!  The shop building was not damaged.

Jim

Candle Snuffer

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 03:20:13 PM »
When fire danger is high where I live, I will shoot a .22lr instead of a muzzle loader.  There's plenty of alternatives to not be shooting on high fire danger days.  Try a .22lr at 200 yards with peep sights.  Challenging...  But lots of fun!

4ster

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 09:01:26 PM »
Guys,

This brings to mind an experience I had a many years ago.  I just finished making a rifle barrel and proof tested it just outside the gunshop.  As a back stop, just a few feet from the muzzle, I had a large pile of very old locust fence posts.  Later that night my wife announced that my shop was on fire!  Apparently the spark from the patch started a fire in the old locust logs after several hours.  There was no brush or leaf litter around, either.  I would bet the house that a hot patch from a muzzle loader could not start a fire directly in the 100 year old logs, but it did!  The shop building was not damaged.

Jim
To extend this as a reminder of why we have to be so careful about making sure a fire is out.  Here is a personal story:

A few years back my next door neighbor Tom's daughter had some friends over for a campout on land the community holds in common.  Knowing that the fire danger was high (I am a private forester and fire risk is always on my mind) I checked the camp fire the next day to make sure it was out.   They had doused the fire with water and the fire ring was cold, all good.  The  day after that I come home and mention to my wife that I thought I smelled smoke, she says "Its been like that all day" - Ok, I sit down to read the paper.  A half hour later another neighbor calls frantic about the smoke that is coming up the slope near the house.  I run out and the slope above the campsite is on fire!  I yell to the wife to call 911 while Tom and I pull all the garden hoses we can roust up to string down the bank to the fire.  We did good too, we pretty much had the fire front knocked down and I was thinking about starting the mop up work when the fire department showed up.

Getting back to Jim's comment above:  The Department of Natural Resources investigator determined that the camp fire was over an old, rotten tree root that had acted like a slow match holding the fire for a couple of days before it took off.  I'll bet the embers on Jim's patch got into some punky locust in his pile and just  bided it's time until no one was looking.  That's why Smokey says to drown the fire, stir the ashes and drown it again!

The final part of the story is a little funny.  A few weeks later Tom knocks at my door with this really long look on his face.  Since it started with his daughter's camp fire, the DNR sent him a bill to cover a fine and the "cost" of the fire.  It was something like $75,000!  He was dumfounded, I was mystified since I couldn't figure out how the few hours the fire department spent on scene tending a fire that Tom and I were well on the way to containing was worth the bill.  The local Fire Chief was a little bit miffed too, talk about an incentive to not report an escaped fire and try to handle it on your own, not a good thing! In fact the Chief said they did not get any of that money from the DNR in any case.  Tom called the DNR and in the end they admitted that they "had got the paperwork mixed up" and they were billing Tom for someone else's fire!  I think he was still on the hook for around $3,000 though.

Sorry for the off topic story but it does show how careful you have to be, the fire may look like it is out....


Crossed Arrows

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2013, 10:22:58 PM »
Great stories.  Since Smokey the Bear has pretty much retired from the Forest Service, outdoorsmen talking about fire prevention is a real good thing, in my book.

Offline Topknot

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2013, 07:57:24 PM »
Great story 4ster, It can happen and most likely happen again. With the patch/lube combo that i have been using the past 8 to 10 years, i havent ever even seen one of my patches smolder ( knock on wood. ) Im not saying that its fire proof. IM just saying that i havent noticed any smoldering. I use the Dutch Schultz method, a really tight denim patch .23 thickness and a mix of cutting oil and water. He told me a few years back, that the napa cutting oil has changed and he now recommends using ballistol. I really cant say that its a fix-all because i personally havent noticed any patches smoldering, but brother let me tell you, if accurracy is your game, look no further. He has a web site , but i cant remember it. ( old age.)

                                                                topknot
TIM COMPTON, SR.

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Crossed Arrows

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2013, 10:49:56 PM »
I want to post a photo, but can't figure out how to do it.  My technological skills are stuck in 1813!

alsask

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2013, 06:30:52 PM »
I have not had a smoldering patch yet, but enough people have warned me about them that I am carefull when it is dry out.  I use Crisco when hunting and Hoppes Plus target shooting.

I throw away my pre-lubed patches at the end of hunting season.  I discovered that they cause the fabric to rot/weaken after a few months.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Fire danger from roundball patches
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2013, 10:28:59 PM »
Hungry Horse - Thanks for the info on tallow and mink oil or the others. 

Ken - You bring up a very good point about lack of management in our forests.  That is certainly the case here in the national forests in Colorado.  They will show up heroically to fight when a fire starts and spend huge amounts of money on it.  The High Park Fire last summer cost about 40 million dollars!  However, our employees, the US Forest Service, does practically nothing to PREVENT FOREST FIRES.  They drive around in their pickup trucks counting the trees that have been infested with pine beetles, but they do not actively thin out the forest or cut significant fire breaks BEFORE a fire starts to contain fires in relatively small areas.  Some creative thinking would do wonders to maintain OUR FORESTS in a healthy way and it could be done economically by working with private citizens who want to use or market lumber.  Oh heck, I won't get started on that subject.
 
Do any of you know if there is a listing of ignition temperatures for various oils?

Much of the problem comes from the top.
However in a valley south of town they are in the midst of an aggressive fuels reduction, significant thinning, in areas close to the road and not in the Wilderness area. This is a high use area with really no way out of the upper canyon. The Wilderness areas are exempt from such things and we have a lot of that here.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine