trigger question

[loco219]

I am bringing an old wallhanger back to life, back to shooting condition. Its Percussion, but the lock is trash. I have had the gun checked out by a smith, he gave the thumbs up that with a new lock, it is safe to shoot. The original trigger is in place ( Single ) none of the linkage from the old lock is there.  The existing drum and nipple are OK. My plan is to purchase a new percussion lock that fits the mortise, install and test fire. My question is, Can I easily link the original trigger to the new lock. or do I have to purchase a new trigger that is made for the new lock? I am a gun collector, but not a gun builder, so I have no clue as to whether my plan is feasible.  I am an accomplished craftsmen, so fitting the new lock and getting the hammer square on the nipple I can do, the trigger is the grey area for me.

[snowdragon]

There is no trigger that is made to match a certain lock. I suppose you can think of production guns in that manner, but that is because certain dimensions never change within a particular model. On a retrofit as you are describing, the distance from the bottom wood and and sear bar are unknown, as is the forward and rearward orientation of the trigger.

I think the best you could do is to buy a lock with the closest lock plate dimensions, file to fit, then go from there. There are even locks with blanks plates you can buy, but you need to make sure you're not going to cut into any internal parts, like the top of the bridle.

All lock brands have a different postition of the sear bar. For instance, L and R has their sear bar away from the bottom of the plate, whereas Davis has theirs flush with the bottom of the plate. This position cannot be changed, so any alteration needs to be done to the trigger blade. Not that difficult, it may just be a matter of filing away some of the blade. Or perhaps soldering on metal to close the distance of travel. Sounds like you're up to it.

So, I would get the lock to fit the existing mortice, then do whatever it takes to make the trigger work with the lock. Good luck. Bill

[loco219]

Thanks for the reply. I asked the question here because it looked pretty easy, and usually with things mechanical, looks are deceiving.  So let me run it by you. When the trigger is pulled, the flat back plate rises, trips the sear bar, which in turn releases the sear and hopefully BOOM.  So I would surmise that recocking the lock puts the trigger back in position ? As stated, an antique simple single trigger.  Would it be applicable to shim the lockplate if necessary to bring the hammer to center on the nipple? Or would you take the time to inlet the lock mortise if need be?

[Acer Saccharum]

As picture with some dimensions from drum to sear location would be good for starters. Height and length of lockplate. It's possible to put new internals in an old lockplate.

Chambers makes a lock with a large rectangular plate, with lock internals. It's called 'Gunmaker's Flintlock'. This is also provided as a kit. You might ask Chambers if it could be supplied in percussion.

[loco219]

I saw the gunmakers lock, which is a great idea. I actually found a new lock that is extremely close, within a 16th of an inch. It will be here in a few days. I just did not understand the trigger and sear because the old lock has no guts in it, ages ago someone robbed the internals. I had nothing to reference.  I actually found a shop that can duplicate the internals, and fit them. Cost would be 3X a new lock !  This is not a highly collectable piece, but  I am on a mission to get it working, I love old guns and don't like to see them idle unless they are not safe or way to valueable to shoot.  The old girl is going to the Turkey woods this spring if I can get her making smoke.  So as long as I can get the sear bar in a position where the trigger trips it and it resets properly, all should go well. I welcome any other thoughts or advice.

[loco219]

Well gentlemen, it took a few hours, but the new lock is mounted, and the caps are snappin' ! MUCH more work than I thought, the new lock plate was much thicker and heavier than the 150 year old one!  I had to file for over an hour, and that gets tedious.  Please forgive me, but I used lipstick to inlet, thats all I had ( well, thats what I found in the wifes make-up bag ).
You all know how bad I wanted to load up and shoot, but I guess the neighbors might not understand. Tomorrow we will make smoke, this old gal has been silent way too long. Thanks for the tips, i watched the lock inletting video here, very helpful. 

[gunmaker]

Picture's

[huntinguy]

Well gentlemen, it took a few hours, but the new lock is mounted, and the caps are snappin' ! MUCH more work than I thought, the new lock plate was much thicker and heavier than the 150 year old one!  I had to file for over an hour, and that gets tedious.  Please forgive me, but I used lipstick to inlet, thats all I had ( well, thats what I found in the wifes make-up bag ).
You all know how bad I wanted to load up and shoot, but I guess the neighbors might not understand. Tomorrow we will make smoke, this old gal has been silent way too long. Thanks for the tips, i watched the lock inletting video here, very helpful. 

Ya, well, try to explain to the gal at the cosmetic counter that, "No, really it is for my gun." Don't ya just hate that look they give you... 

Pictures ? (of the gun that is  )

[pathfinder]

Good for you! I'm of the same mind as you. If it's possable,and it's NOT a rare gun from a know maker,by all means GO FOR IT!

I too have a couple of half stock percussion gun's that will require very little work to get into working condition. I have already fixed @ 14 so far.

I hope you realize that you are now HOOKED(not only by the breech!),and you WILL continue to advance in your skill set to where you'll take on ANY project!

Good job. Now,PICTURES!!!! or your grounded!

[loco219]

Well, my Dig. camera is a Kodak, and it will not come on as of yesterday! What else? Kodak is OUT OF BUSINESS ! How about that. I bought that camera because I thought I would never have to worry?  Anyway, the gun fires. I loaded 30
Grains and a paperwad for the test. I cut out a cardboard box platform, lined it with an old towel, capped the nipple, tied a 30 foot string to the trigger.  Even though the gunsmith deemed her safe and sound, we are talking about a gun from 1830, therfore the 30 foot string. 1,2,3, PULL.....Kaaabboooom! Confetti all the way out past the garage! Close exam revealed no defects, so we are good to go. It is still squirrel season here in PA., so tomorrow she and I are going hunting.  If I decide I like her and we get along, I already spoke to MRS. Chambers this morning, and I will treat the gun to a reconversion ( Back to Flint ) I bought an inexpensive percussion lock just to get her shooting again, but I like the way the gun feels. If I can, I will see if I can load cell phone pics tomorrow after she kills for the first time in 25 Presidents or so, CHEERS !

[TMerkley]

Love hearing about projects like yours.

Doctors of guns and cars can do what Doctors of Human anatomy can only dream of, Bring back the dead!!!!

Restorations are not just challenging physically, but also mentally in trying to learn the history behind them and analyzing the process of how to fix them.  (a darn sight better than a word search for a hobby)

[loco219]

You are correct. In fooling with modern guns for many years, I sat many times with a pile of parts, trying and retrying until you get it right. Thats what fascinates me about longrifles. An object so painfully simple is so complex to build. Just in installing this lock, it was a lesson. It was 1/4" shorter than it was supposed to be, and much thicker in the bolsters over the mainspring.  After pondering several ways to go, I decided to keep it forward in the mortise, because it fit perfect in that position. Due to the fact that this was originally a flintlock, the entire mortise is set up for a lock with the internals a bit farther back. I have a hand crank drill ( somewhat like a big fishing reel ) for cabinet making. It allows precise control over the material you remove. I just had to remove a few small amounts of material and it came out OK. It cannot be perfect because the plate is too short, but good enough to shoot with for now. Then file off those bolsters until I achieved a level fit.  If I decide to reconvert to flint, I will have it done professionally, simply because I understand I am not up to that job quite yet.   

[TMerkley]

I have seen some old rifles that had replacement locks from the old days where the gap was filled with solder as a way to convert from flint to percussion. You might be able to do that and it would still look like one of the old time conversions until you get it re-converted back.  You might be able to have someone weld up the lock plate and shape it to fit the mortise until you have it redone.  It is easier to repair metal than it is wood.  Especially when you remove something from the wrong spot.

[pathfinder]

I'm just the opposite, I've made a good living for over 50 years replacing missing wood as an antique restorer.