KY/PA pistol dimensioned drawings

[wet willy]

Anyone have source for dimensioned drawings for a Kentucky or PA style pistol from the 18th to early 19th century, or some images with a scale so I can estimate some dimensions?

I have the ToTW drawing for a Hawken half stock pistol, but seems too bulky. Nice images on the ALR Virtual Museum site, but I can't tell much about the dimensions of the forend, the thickness of the grip area, and  how high are the edges on the lock panel. My guess is these pistols are quite slender. Pretty clear info on barrel length and OD, maybe OAL, but not much else.

Much as I'd like to handle an original, there are no choices available to me where I live in the north central states.

[whetrock]

Recreating the American Longrifle, by Buchele, Shumway, and Alexander  had a set of full size drawings for a PA rifle and pistol in an envelope inside the back cover.  (I have 4th ed. 1970, 1983.) I'm assuming other editions would include these plans, but don't really know. The plans do include cross section views.

Buchele apparently drew the patterns (he signed and dated them 1966). Rifle was similar in carving design, at least, to a Frederick Sell rifle that is documented in Kindig's Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle in its Golden Age, p 413.  Not sure if the pistol was similarly based on any particular antique piece or not. Perhaps some else might know.

Note that these seem to be Bucheles interpretation. From what I can tell, they do NOT seem to be documentary drawings from any particular antique piece. But they may be useful to you.

Anyway, you could probably borrow a copy of the book or get a copy through interlibrary loan. If you do the interlibrary loan, you should be sure to include in the request that you hope to view the plans that appear in the envelope, etc. Some libaries pull stuff like that out and store it separately, lest it get lost. SO you have to ask for it secifically.

[whetrock]

You might also try to track down a copy of Kentucky Rifles and Pistols 1750-1850. (published 1976) by Golden Age Arms and James R. Johnson.

That book includes quite a few images of nice pistols, and includes a full length top view and bottom view of many of the pistols that appear in the book. And (this is the great part) many of the captions for the photos include some measured dimension, such as barrel length. That makes it possible to use the photos to produce a full scale image.

Again, library loan is a big help. Most of these books are very expensive if you buy them. I own a whole shelf full of these things, and I'm happy to pay the publishers for their effort. but I always try to view a copy first, before buying. Some libaries will charge you the postage for an interlibary loan, but many even offer the service for free. Some of the best tax money ever spent.

Hope this helps.
Whet

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Shouldn't pistols be made to the shooter hand size? I have held some that felt very unconfortable not fitting my hand at all.

[wet willy]

(PLB): Thanks. Tried scaling images, but sometimes there is no info on the barrel OD, and exactly what is the barrel length: muzzle to breechplug face, or muzzle to tang, or ....? Maybe none of the matters, so I've been trying to eyeball geometry that seems to me to be pleasant.

Thanks for the reminder about the plans in "Recreating the ..." I have a copy, plans intact, and just noticed the drawings for a KY pistol at the bottom!

I have "Kentucky Rifles and Pistols" which has nice B&W images and some from below which show the trigger guard and the slender forends. Great for showing lock side views, sideplates, and sights, but sadly lacking in cross sections.

Also have "The English Pistol," Ron Beebe, Golden Age Arms, 1980, which has images and info on dimensions for swamped barrels from the 18th & early 19th century. I would think these English pistol had some influence on the KY versions, as they share many features.

Maybe there is enough variability from one gun maker to another that most anything I create, within reason,  is close enough to any/some original.

[whetrock]

Thanks for the follow up, Willy. Yeah, I assumed you were just trying to get a feel for the overall dimensions. I always try to do that too. If I'm interested in building something I haven’t had a chance to actually see, then I always draw it out at full scale with original dimensions (pull, drop, barrel length) as best I can. I feel like having an understanding of the original dimensions just helps me get something of a feel for the antique, even if I am just working from photos. I can modify from there. I assumed that you were after something like that, too.

The geometry of American flintlock pistol varies so widely. I think you hit it on the head when you wrote: “I’ve been trying to eyeball geometry that seems to me to be pleasant.”

I built a pistol for my wife a few years ago. (Don't laugh guys. She liked it!) I started with the basic profile of the Peter Berry pistol on p204 of Kentucky Rifles and Pistols, and kept that profile from the entry hole back. I chose that one because I thought it was elegant and looked like it could handle being thinned down without loosing proportion. The original had a 4 ˝ inch barrel. I filed a swamp into a 9 ˝ chunk of 13/16 barrel I had left over from another project, and used that. It’s not a museum piece, but it was fun and it shoots straight enough for me. (Oh, did I say “me”? I meant to say “her”.  )

Thanks for the tip on the The Englsh Pistol. I've seen other guys mention it here, but I haven’t yet had a chance to see it.

As for barrel length, I'm assuming they usually just mean external length of the main tube, not counting tang. That's what P. Alexander uses in his Grenville County book. P.22. when describing several antiques he discusses.