Reason for the old barrel being 'shot out'!!?

[dagner]

were you using a good bore prtotector on rod.watch a lot of guys put tons of rounds in their target guns for 20 years and still shoot good. they all take the time to use steel rod with protector going straight in and out gun never cleaned at angle

[Roger Fisher]

Roger,
I believe you, but I would like to see pictures and measurments, also, if you can get them.  What I can't figure out is what was the critical point of the wear, i.e., I know you brought this one back from the brink several times and that this wear must have been present for some time: What put it over the edge?  This worries me, because I've occasionally felt that "excessive" cleaning may cause more wear and problems than "adequate" cleaning.  Also, it seems that a tight cleaning patch might also actually contribute to rounding the corners of the lands with too many trips up and down the barrel trying to get the grooves clean, esp. if picking up grit.  Might it be better to brush a couple of times, soak, and wipe as little as possible when getting the barrel clean?

Finally, for the barrel wizards -- could the lands be sharpened up a bit by polishing with a tight, bore-diameter lap?  Assuming, of course, the wear is not too severe; obviously it would require a slightly larger ball afterwards and the grooves would be shallower, but probably not badly so for a few treatments.

"Would li9ke to see pictures and measurements"   So would I.  I was in fact told many years ago re: the barrel in questions that I would ruin it by cleaning.!

[rich pierce]

Finally, for the barrel wizards -- could the lands be sharpened up a bit by polishing with a tight, bore-diameter lap?  Assuming, of course, the wear is not too severe; obviously it would require a slightly larger ball afterwards and the grooves would be shallower, but probably not badly so for a few treatments.

I am not a wizard or even a wizard's apprentice, but in my limited experience laps cannot sharpen anything; they just smooth things.  A cutter is needed to sharpen the edges of lands.  Seems to me that hoping to sharpen a land by lapping would be like sharpening the edge of a board with sandpaper wrapped over the edge.

[Dphariss]

Hi Rich
I think that a brass barrel lap used only in the bore might, by cutting down the lands, make the edges sharper. But since really sharp edges are not really needed in a RB rifle I see little point.

Dan

[bgf]

Hi Rich
I think that a brass barrel lap used only in the bore might, by cutting down the lands, make the edges sharper. But since really sharp edges are not really needed in a RB rifle I see little point.

Dan

Dan,
That is exactly what I had in mind.  Not only to sharpen the edges of the lands in this case but more importantly to bring them back to more uniform height (groove depth) for the length of the barrel.  I would prefer the land corners be crisp, but it is probably just superstition and too much frustration with microgroove rifling .  I bet the ball and patch preference of the barrel would change noticeably, though.

[David Price]

I see shooters putting their cleaning rod in their vehicle and then putting all kinds of equipment on top of them.   A slightly bent rod is more likely to touch the barrel mid way down than by flexing.  I have thrown away a few rods that were slightly bent.  It is next to impossable to straighten them.

[Dphariss]

Casting a lead lap in the bore and then lapping it would be a better idea.
This will make it easier to clean as well since it cleans the grooves as well.
Lapping is not a bad idea for any button rifled barrel and cut rifled barrels can really benefit by a good polishing.

Dan

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Roger, you didn't mention if the groves were square or round. Don't know that it matters but just for the discussion.

[Roger Fisher]

Roger, you didn't mention if the groves were square or round. Don't know that it matters but just for the discussion.

Square at least when she was new..

[C. Cash]

I have enjoyed the saga of this barrel in this and previous threads.  70K rounds......that is amazing, especially when you consider the ball went through it 140K times, plus the cleaning.  If gas blowby in a RB gun presents a problem, it's not much of a real problem at all.

[Black Jack]

What are opinions of the synthetic rods such as the Wonder Rod and others of this type. They are a flexible plastic material, not fiberglass. They do flex a lot and would contact the lands inside the barrel, but seem like they would be non-abrasive to the bore.

[Dennis Glazener]

I see shooters putting their cleaning rod in their vehicle and then putting all kinds of equipment on top of them.   A slightly bent rod is more likely to touch the barrel mid way down than by flexing.  I have thrown away a few rods that were slightly bent.  It is next to impossable to straighten them.

I agree. I made a rod carrying case out of an old piece of PCV pipe with a cap glued on one end and a slip fit cap on the other. Have used it for over 35 years and its still as good as new. Protects the rods from being bent and otherwise beat up.
Dennis

[Daryl]

I have enjoyed the saga of this barrel in this and previous threads.  70K rounds......that is amazing, especially when you consider the ball went through it 140K times, plus the cleaning.  If gas blowby in a RB gun presents a problem, it's not much of a real problem at all.

I'd wager little if any gas blow-by happened in Roger's barrel - before the wear, that is, that caused the shredded patches.
The reason is as simple as the ball and patch combinations he used.  They do not allow the blowby that thumb started loads allow.

[C. Cash]

I have enjoyed the saga of this barrel in this and previous threads.  70K rounds......that is amazing, especially when you consider the ball went through it 140K times, plus the cleaning.  If gas blowby in a RB gun presents a problem, it's not much of a real problem at all.

I'd wager little if any gas blow-by happened in Roger's barrel - before the wear, that is, that caused the shredded patches.
The reason is as simple as the ball and patch combinations he used.  They do not allow the blowby that thumb started loads allow.

.  I only hope to shoot as much BP as many you fellas over my lifetime....thank you for the explaination and good to hear.

[billm]

Rodger how do you clean your gun?I think anyone who has that many rounds thru a gun is onto something that we all could benefit from.Thanks  Bill

[Roger Fisher]

Rodger how do you clean your gun?I think anyone who has that many rounds thru a gun is onto something that we all could benefit from.Thanks  Bill

The way I do it, and this is not the only way to clean but works for me, is::: When shoot is over and I have some strength left, I let the hammer down over  a slip of leather onto the nipple and pour maybe half a teaspoon of oil into the bore and follow with a patch to schmutz it around some.  My flinter I simply shove a wet with oil patch thru her a time or two.   This little bit of prevention last til the next day when I feel more rested and do a better job.  (NO more cleaning guns til late at night at my place)...  Next day I pull some of the oil out with a patch then pour in some tap water mixed 20% with 'simple green'.  Slosh it around some and go to some other duties for 10 minutes or so.   I come back to the rifle and run a patch and worm combo in to the breech and wipe the breech face to rid her of fouling.  (I have a seperate rod fitted with said worm.)   I then run in the bare jagged cleaning rod and work the slop in there washing machine motion a bit and dump her out in to the laundry tub.  (please rinse the tub)  Usually 5 or 6 patches later she shows no or v little fouling.  I run a good dry patch or 2 thru her and oil. ( been using ballistol )
Pull clean out screw and clean with a pipe cleaner.  Put a drop of oil on the screw so she cooperates next cleaning session.  The lock gets flushed cleaned and oiled (WD40)., abt every other shoot  Since my barrels are pinned in the stock, the barrel stays in the stock..

As said before works for me and is the easiest and best way for me to do the thingee.

[Pete G.]

I think the problem is obvious..........
Anyone who fires that many rounds through one rifle doesn't have enough rifles.

[Roger Fisher]

I think the problem is obvious..........
Anyone who fires that many rounds through one rifle doesn't have enough rifles.

Its a lot like having too many women, can't keep them all happy; but a $#*! of a lot of fun trying

[Roger Fisher]

After talking in person to the lads that freshed this barrel I must make the following correction.  Earlier phone conversation with them was hairy due to my hearing being much less than good.. I understood them to say the barrel was also tight (in good shape) breech and up 8 or some  such inches.  This was incorrect.. Muzzle and down 8 or 9 inches was in good shape but from there on down to the breech was very loose and the lap fell down.  So, it seems to me (which may be also incorrect) that the wear and round over land edges was from all that in and out loading, shooting, cleaning over all those shooting and cleaning sessions.  When we realize that the act/motion of cleaning etc is normally from breech to within 9 inches or so below the muzzle and not to the muzzle.  Makes sense to me.  I really do not believe that my 3/8 in stainless smooth steel rod whacked the rifling much if at all.  Yesterday I used her in our 50 yd chunk match and shot a 3 shot group mostly in the same hole (3 shot match)

So, you may feel free to pick this apart.  What say you