Author Topic: 18th Century Barrel Treatment  (Read 7450 times)

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5328
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
18th Century Barrel Treatment
« on: February 26, 2013, 06:18:56 PM »
What was the typical barrel finished used on longrifles during, say, the 1750s through the 1790s?  I know they had bluing and browning but were these the most common?
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

keweenaw

  • Guest
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 06:54:27 PM »
There was been lots of discuss of this but the time frame you mention spans some changes.  The general consensus seems to be that prior to the end of the revolutionary war barrels were either left bright or were charcoal blued.  Browning seemed to come into use in the mid to late 1780's. 

Tom

Offline bgf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1403
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »
What Snyder says is about all I could find in numerous attempts to research as well -- I'd trust him over me, anyway.  What I do wonder, though, is how often a brown barrel happened on its own before it was offered as a service.  I've been amazed at how quickly barrels and other parts brown themselves beautifully if left alone for a week in the right conditions.  And, it isn't beyond belief that an enterprising gunmaker would have noted just how many things can accelerate rust on a barrel and help it along, without giving it a "marketing" name until he found people asking for that "fine-grained brown finish on my friends barrel"!

Offline Darrin McDonal

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 09:06:45 PM »
The first documented advertising for browned barrels is in 1794 05 1795.
Darrin
Apprentice Gunsmith
Colonial Williamsburg
Owner of Frontier Flintlocks

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5109
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 11:33:25 PM »
I don't have it handy, but the Gunmaker's list established in England in 16?? to set prices for various types of guild work contains a price for "russetting barrels."    This document is readily available, but I don't remember which of my books shows it.  I think I have posted the complete list here and it's probably in the old archives somewhere.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline James Rogers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3150
  • James Rogers
    • Fowling Piece
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 11:51:57 PM »
Nigel George, in his research seemed to conclude that russetting was "more closely akin to the ancient method of preserving bills and other hafted weapons by coating them with a dark pigment than to the modern system of "browning" gun barrels by a process of artificial oxidation in an acid bath" which he says was "introduced in England at the beginning of the eighteenth century."


Espingarda Perfeyta or The Perfect Gun, which was written at the end of the 17th century describes charcoal blue and temper blue the two common methods of color for the writers at the time.

An Essay on Shooting mentions browning as a new thing in lieu of blueing and blacking. It was written in the late 1780s but much of it was plagiarized from a writing from a little earlier.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 12:36:19 AM by James Rogers »

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19323
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 11:52:15 PM »
When removed from the barrel channel, it's not uncommmon to find a lack of finish on the bottom flats of barrels of the earlier longrifles.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Long John

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1618
  • Give me Liberty or give me Death
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2013, 05:32:46 PM »
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Maj. Robert Rogers ordered his men to "brown" the barrels of their muskets during the war with the French and their Indian allies.  In The Sprtsman's Companion, or An Essay on Shooting, published in 1783 by a British officer, he advises "darkening the barrel of the gun with some kind of stain".  This seems to suggest that this practice was common. 

While we are accustomed to buying a browning agent, anyone can make his own by mixing vinegar and sea water.  It takes a little longer to get an even brown but the end result is the same.

Best Regards,

John Cholin
staining the breech. 

Offline RAT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 699
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 06:35:26 PM »
Not to say it didn't exist before... but... browning barrels seems to have been popularized by England around 1770-1790. English sporting rifles went through an evolution around this time from full stock to half stock. Octagon-to-round barrels with under ribs soldered on were used. The soldering precluded the use of heat bluing as was previously used, therefore browning was substituted. What was popular in England spread elsewhere.

I'm certainly not an expert. I haven't had the opportunity to examine the originals. I learn mostly from books. But I believe most American rifle barrels were left bright.
Bob

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
    • Personal Website
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2013, 07:19:12 PM »
Rat,

Part of your arguement relies on the assumption that English barrels were typically blued prior to browning becoming popular.  I'm not sure this was the case.  In fact, I don't recall seeing a blued barrel or any remains of blueing on an English gun from the time in question (mid 18th century).  Yes, heavy cleaning is typicallly encountered on these guns, but if this was a typical procedure, I  would expect to see some evidence left behind, somewhere.

Offline James Wilson Everett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1097
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2013, 07:33:17 PM »
Guys,

One thing that we must recognize is that we are not using the same material to make our guns as that used in the 18th c.  Surely our modern steel parts seem to rust so very readily as noted above.  However, real wrought iron is quite rust resistant when compared with modern steel.  In fact, the last uses of wrought iron in the early 20th c was for this corrosion resistance advantage. 

When we make a gun using the original material it is much easier to keep bright and rust free as compared to a steel gun.  When I do a crowd show-n-tell I leave my rifling machine outside where it gets wet from rain & dew.  The wrought iron barrel clamped in the machine will show very little effect while the reenactors with their steel barreled guns are busy cleaning the rust.

A bright wrought iron gun makes a lot of sense, bright steel guns are more of a bother.

Jim

Offline heinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
Re: 18th Century Barrel Treatment
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 03:06:46 AM »
About the only thing more useless in the woods than a bright shiny barrel is bright shiny brass furniture.  IMHO :-)

Chasing down the existence or lack of browning on early longrifles is very difficult.  Browning and bluing are seen on about 1/2 of the Jaegers out there.  Rust bluing after a 100 years or so is very hard to distinguish from heat bluing.  The lack of finish on the bottom flats when removed from the stocks could well be because browning in a workmanlike manner did not require browning where it did not show.  There appears to have been considerable difference in taste between England and the continent in this area which makes extrapolating to the American frontier even more difficult. 

You asked about 1750 through 1790 and I would suggest the 1750 to 1770 finish may have been different than the 1770 to 1790 approach.  1770 and later browning would be relatively common in my opinion.  Urine and iron filings makes a good browning agent.  Sal-ammoniac, commonly used in the 18th century as a solder flux, is a first class browning agent when used with care.
kind regards, heinz