Using Onion Skins to dye a horn

[Dennis Glazener]

First let me say I am a complete novice when it comes to powder horns and if one can be screwed up I am sure I will do it!

I read where Carl (gorgeous horns by the way) used Onion skins to put a wonderful color on one of his horns.  I would like to get a similiar color on a couple of natural colored (contempoary) horns that I have.

I have a couple of questions:

Is it reasonable to think I can color a finished contemporary horn that does not appear to have any type of finish on it except for the wooden buttplug? If so how do I go about it and will it ruin the wooded butt plug? (i.e. soaking it)

If using Onion skins is not feasible on a completed horn, is there something else that I can use to get that color while leaving the wood like it is now?

On one of them I tried to use some Aqua Fortis and it did about as much good as putting cold water on it!
Dennis

[Dan Herda]

Dennis, I just used this method on my first banded horn. I will post pix and method I used after work.(00:30)

[smorrison]

Dennis,
Onion skins and RIT dyes are common methods of coloring the horn.  However, they involve immersing the horn in a hot dye bath which will affect the plug.  If the horn is unfinished, the hot dye bath will stain it and you can take care of the raised grain on the wood.  When using RIT I don't set the base plug until after dyeing.  There is a danger with immersing an older horn into a hot dye such as RIT or onion skins.  I was tasked to engrave an older Curleton horn and stained the body in RIT.  I didn't know it at the time but the Curleton horn uses a two piece base plug; an inner piece inserted into the body and sanded off flush with the base and an outer piece of fine wood glued over that.  The two pieces came apart in the dye bath and I had to carefully re epoxy them together.

Aqua fortis can be tricky, but you do not need to immerse the horn in hot water.  I don't have as much experience as others on this board, but what I've found out is every horn is different.  The trick is to make sure the horn is clean and free of oils; I wash the horn with soap and water and thereafter use vinyl gloves.  I wouldn't give up completely as it's going to take several applications of the aqua fortis to get the color you want.

Hopefully someone else may have a technique that I haven't tried that will help you out.

Scott M

[Carl Dumke]

Dennis,
I agree with Scott.  If you are very careful, you could hold the horn by the plug and submerge it spout first and keep a keen eye on the horn.  You can wrap electrical tape around the plug before doing it to prevent too much moisture from getting to the plug.  Be sure to use the store brand tape from ACE hardware since it wont leave black residue on the surface--othe brands will.  I use this process when I dye the spout to prevent too much dye from coloring the rest if the horn--works like a champ!  You can paint on the dye, but that can be very time consuming.  Hope this helps...

[Hungry Horse]

 Steeping onion skins in vinegar is a very effective way to color horn, and gives the best antique look I know of. That being said, the problems you mention are indeed a factor to consider. I have found that the coloration of the horn has to be planned from the very start, or the plug swelling issue, and peg swelling issue, will rear their ugly heads. This method is not like the Rit dye method, that is quite fast. The horn has to be steeped in the solution for quite some time, which wreaks havoc with the wooden parts.

                       Hungry Horse

[Dan Herda]

Dennis, My first response was after speed reading your post on a 10 minute break at work
After rereading it I think definitely there would be risk dunking an assembled horn. There is a thread about this over on the hornersbench that I started a couple of weeks ago when I was building my first banded horn. One fellow said he soaks his entire horn after complete assembly but he seals the wood plug inside and out before assembling it. He said he doesn't have a problem. However if yours is a completed horn, I think it would be difficult to seal the wood on the inside to make it safe. I am a beginning Horner with less than a doz. horns under me so this is jmho. I dyed all my horn pcs., ( main horn and two rings) before assembly. I did like the color I achieved. I had about a third of a ice cream pale of loose skins in a chile pot big enough to hang the horn from a dowel with artificial sinew fully submerged. I brought it to a boil,shut off the heat,took out onion skins,and then dunked horn and let soak for 40 minutes. The thread is on the 2 nd page under accutramnts at the bench.
Perhaps if you sealed the plug ( beeswax?) you could steep it like hungryhorse mentioned?
Hope this helps.

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks to all of you. Good suggestions. I think I will try Aqua Fortis first (sounds easier). I tried it awhile back and didn't get any color change but it may be that the horn had a coat of wax on it and the Aqua Fortis did not penetrate the wax. I will wipe it down with alcohol first and if that doesn't do it I will try some lacquer thinner.
Dennis

[T*O*F]

The trick is to make sure the horn is clean and free of oils;

To add to that, sometimes horns have been waxed, or have wax based buffing compound residue left on the horn.  Other times, the horns are so highly polished that the stain can't gain a purchase on the surface to do its work.  A good cleaning is imperative and sometimes a light scuffing in certain areas to rough it up a bit.

[Randy Hedden]

Dennis,

It is okay to dye a finished horn with a dye bath because you don't have to submerge the horn into the liquid dye bath to get the job done.   You can just hold the finished horn over the dye bath and use a paint brush to flood the horn with the dye.  It takes a little longer, but you don't really have to worry about the butt plug growing whiskers.

Randy Hedden

[smorrison]

Randy, that's a great idea.

Scott M

[bluenoser]

Randy,

Thanks for the tip.  I have the same base plug concern with a horn I am working on.  Does it work for onion skin dye?

Laurie

[Dennis Glazener]

Dennis,

It is okay to dye a finished horn with a dye bath because you don't have to submerge the horn into the liquid dye bath to get the job done.   You can just hold the finished horn over the dye bath and use a paint brush to flood the horn with the dye.  It takes a little longer, but you don't really have to worry about the butt plug growing whiskers.

Randy Hedden

Thanks Randy, just as soon as I have time I am going to try both the Aqua Fortis and one of the dye methods.
Dennis