Patch box release

[bashermax]

I'm building a Verner gun, but with a NON-Verner patchbox (Blasphemy?)  I've seen several releases from toe and But plate, but was wondering if anyone has ever done (To me the obvious) a release on the patch box lid its self?  (Like a small spring-loaded jewelry box release.  I have an idea drawn and will post later if I get time.  It may NOT be a "traditional" latch release mech. but I figure, HEY, I'm building this, not so & So!  I'm still using hand tools, and I'm not COPYING one particular gun.

Also, I'm new to the forum but Not a newby at shooting or woodwork and the like

[Greg S Day]

You mean like this?



It's just a cut nail thinned down so it had some springiness.  You need to relieve a bit of wood behind it to allow for some movement.

Greg

[bashermax]

Sort of.  Except instead of being mounted on the stock and catching the lid, it would be a small button on the lid that slides to unlock.   If I could figure out how to post a picture or link I'd post the actual inlet box as well as a detailed drawing of what I'm proposing to install.  I've seen similar type mechanisms on the aft Buttplate, but it seems like a "bad" placement, and would perhaps be accidentally engaged when throwing the gun to shoulder, resting on butt-plate etc...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200280796675802&set=a.10200250509638645.1073741826.1030024065&type=3&theater

This link is to my album on facebook which has the progress of the gun

[bashermax]

[greybeard]

This is how I do it.

http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/Bob_Reader/media/37.jpg.html

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z378/Bob_Reader/36.jpg

The vertical pencil line iss where a hole is drilled for a push pin. Relieve the wood under the side plate so  that when you squese the bottom edge of the side plate the pin puhes down to release the lid.        Bob

[pushboater]

Basher, I kinda learned the hard way that if you're going to build something out of the ordinary, something that doesn't conform to the KNOWN SCHOOLS of gunsmithing, Something that can't be compaired to anything else because there's nothing similar to compair it to, then you may be better off not classifying it.  Heck, Just call it the Bashermax school, or the Bashermax Fantasy Rifle.  Buy the way, I like your design.  Very Unique and Original.  And I think that's the key word here.......ORIGINAL! I think your rifle is going to be every bit as original as anything that was built 200 years ago it'll simply have attributes of several different schools.  That can be tricky to pull off successfully, but I've seen it done with the results being an outstanding original piece of work.  Good luck on your endeavor.

Capt. David

[BartSr]

You mean like this?



It's just a cut nail thinned down so it had some springiness.  You need to relieve a bit of wood behind it to allow for some movement.

Greg

Greg,
I like it, thanks for the picture.
Paul

[KentSmith]

To answer your original question - Eric Kettenburg has a patchbox release on one of his rifles similar to what you are asking, I believe I saw another on a Steve Davis rifle once.  There is a slide on the bottom of the patchbox lid held in place with two small U-shaped metal straps that allow it to slide forward and back.  A spring pinned to the lid that bears on the front of the slide wanting to push it to the rear.  The slide catches on a metal catch just in front of the buttplate. The slide has a button that pokes through a small hole in the lid and is mushroomed so the button hides the hole from the outside.  The button is pushed forward against the spring tension to unlatch the lid and snaps back when released to engage the catch when closed.  Pictures would be better.  Mr. Kettenburg has a nice picture of it all on his site.  www.erickettenburg.com 

[KentSmith]

http://www.erickettenburg.com/Site/1750s_Rifle.html#6 - good example of what I think you are asking.

[bgf]

One perhaps trivial consideration is that if the button/latch is on the lid, the lid doesn't pop up so satisfyingly because your hand is in the way!  As popping the patch box open to watch it work is probably 50% of the utility of a patchbox , it is worth considering, esp. if you are just doing what you want and not following a particular rifle.

[Jim Kibler]

The Muscian's rifle and an early Shroyer rifle have a release as you suggest.  Wallace Gusler detailed these in a Muzzle Blast article several years ago. 

[bashermax]

To Eric A and Pushboat, The only reason I call the gun a "Verner" is because, that was the stock pattern I chose to begin with.  I know that I've made it Percussion, changed the PB etc so, yes... Technically , it's just "MY rifle".    I have NO intention of doing any more with this gun than carry it to the woods and shoot deer with it as I did with the Hawken I built years ago (Until it was stolen in a burglary).  It's just a "Fantasy" gun I'll admit.  Sorry.  Unless I build one for my son, This'll probly be the LAST gun project I do.  It's been fun to try to learn something about them as I learn how to build it, but I ain't the House Brothers!  I'm far more inclined to take up Scrimshaw, since I already am proficient at pen & ink drawing and the 2 are similar.  I have learned.. I HATE engraving!   Metal Just doesn't seem to do what I want it to.

Thanks for the input.  Point taken

To Kent Smith:  That's VERY close to what I'm proposing, Except a much"lighter" construction to keep the weight down so that the door spring still can "pop" the lid.  How do you post a Pic or Drawing on this site?  I've pushed all the Icons but they don't lead you to browse to a photo gallery like most programs.

A picture would be worth a 1000 words to show what I mean.

[KentSmith]

I think if you could locate the Muzzle Blast issue Jim Kibler refered to you will find Wallace Gusler will have a lighter example and some pointers about the construction that will suit your needs.  I have been considering this same approach for a rifle of mine and will be interested in how it turns out for you.

[Randall Steffy]

bashermax,
Here is a link to this site's photo placement tutorial.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=10.0
You can do it!

[bashermax]

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/imageedit/AlbumID=8947831025/PictureID=378730908025/PictureIDList=378730908025/

This is a "sketch" of the proposed Mech  (I think!?)

[bashermax]

Lets try this instead!!!

http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=8947831025/a=15487075025_15487075025/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/
Thanks for the advice on posting... one day I'll figure it out LOL

Last pic has the Mechanism in a drawing on "Word"   Basically, it would be a forged "cut" nail with the catch of the latch filed into it, a hole drilled to accept a pin to keep it from falling out of the slot in the lid, a spring either mounted to the lid, or screwed/driven into the stock, and a catch driven into the stock.

The lid would have a short Slot filed into it, to accept the body of the latch mech
( pinned tightly).  The spring would push it to the catch in the stock.  Pushing it sideways (Toward the toe ) would disengage the latch and it would open.  Very simple construction but fairly eloquent design.  Easy maintenance and no "guesswork drilling".   If it wee my 5th gun, I might attempt something "clever", but at this point, practical and "do-able" is more important (To me)

[Copperclad]

 
You can't view the album without signing up  to snapfish

scroll down in this link and there is some info on posting photos  
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?action=help;page=post

another option might be to use photobucket instead of snapfish 

HTH

[bashermax]

problem solved    Below is the result.   I used a piece of steel and "Torch Forged" a button on the end .  I ground and shaped the catch and sides.  I silver soldered a wedge into a slot on the button shank to keep it in place on the lid.  (The BIG trick was NOT soldering the darn button to the lid!). 

I formed a spring from a piece of beat-up Ryobi/dozuki sawblade that I anealed.

I'll have to fiddle a bit with the pin to get a good solid "Snap" in the latch but it works just as I thought.   The forged button looks pretty nice once it was all polished up

[bashermax]

http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Bashermax/media/DSCF0328_zps890473c6.jpg.html


http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Bashermax/media/DSCF0337_zps47d1c14e.jpg.html

http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Bashermax/media/DSCF0333_zps486880db.jpg.html

[BartSr]

Thanks for those pictures, This helps me a lot in deciding to make one for myself.