Patchbox catch

[David R. Pennington]

My first attempt at spring catch on Jos. Bogle rifle failed. How was original catch made? Can't tell much about it from most of the pictures I've seen.

[Dave B]

From looking at the library photos it looks like the  release button  is pushing the catch spring toward the patch box cavity to release it. The catch lug on the lid is set to be grabbed by the catch spring notch  facing toward the butt plate. You have to speculate as to the method of attachment of the push pin to the mechanism but several options are possible. It could be pined, riveted or mortice and tenon. Here is how it may be rendered for attachment. I too would be interested to see if one of our members has studied this piece and how they made the release mechanism.

[Acer Saccharum]

The arm of the catch spring would be super stiff as drawn. Make arm as long as you can, between attachment to stock and hook of catch, and a thin section where the bending can take place would be needed.

These are on the surface, simple mechanisms, but deceptively tricky.

[David R. Pennington]

The first spring I made in sort of "C" shape  with a lug mortised in under the butt plate. It was too stiff and I couldn't get it to work consistently. Thanks for the drawings. I've been thinking about it while driving today. My thought is to get the spring as long as possible to get more spring. I'm thinking about a sort of V with a hole drilled or mortised under the catch to receive the longer spring.

[Dave B]

Tom You are so practical as well as right. Herschel house uses a chuck of band stock to make  a catch spring in the APR Building a Kentucky rifle II  if I am not mistaken.

[Acer Saccharum]

The button must pivot in the spring, because it would bind in the buttplate hole if it was riveted to the spring.

[Dphariss]

Also a push button on the buttplate face is not a good idea. Push buttons need to be in the toeplate or the buttplate "return" what ever its called so that they do not open under recoil or when the buttplate it set on your foot.

There are other comments here I also agree with, longer arm on the spring for this sort of design, deceptively complex. The spring need not be excessively stiff. Like a sear in a lock it should stay latched with no spring pressure if the parts are properly made.

Dan

[Acer Saccharum]

I've had pushbuttons and catches on the face of the buttplate without causing any problems. If the button stuck way out and had a very light spring, yes, that could be a problem.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

A lot of Lehigh rifles have the latch release protruding the butt plate.  Often it is simply the end of the spring itself without a button.  JP Beck used this method as well, but added a button.

[Dave B]

 Tom , I  use a removable spacer between surfaces when riveting a link like this. As long as the shaft being riveted has wiggle room it wont bind.  This is also how we keep straps that need to swivel from binding up when we do our leather work.  The shim is made from section of hack saw blade with a 1/8" notch cut though to the pin hole at the end of the blade. You rivet the part then pull out the shim and you have the controlled motion you need.

[David R. Pennington]

The button is going in the butt plate because that is where it is on the original rifle I am basing this one on. I think I need to work the mortise out deeper to accommodate a longer spring to give me moor flex. I'll try again.

[bgf]

DavidR,
A stiff spring and small button should help keep the box from flying open under recoil or casual contact (such as resting butt on foot).  I have not done a pushbutton in the buttplate, but when I followed a SWVa/ETn. rifle that had a small (almost pinlike) pushbutton, I made it captive in the toeplate by starting with 3/16" round stock and turning it down to a little less than 1/8", which is the size of the hole in the toeplate; the spring tension holds it in place just fine.  Since you probably don't have wood to support the middle of the pushrod in the Bogle configuration, you could use a similar technique (turned down pushrod) on both ends.   On the spring end (put it into a hole in the spring), use the same technique, and peen the end of the pusrod a little bit to keep it from slipping out.  If the fit of the pushrod in the spring is a little loose, it shouldn't bind, but a little "preload" on the spring will minimize rattling.

If you start out with a very stiff spring and good geometry on the catches, you can take material off the spring a bit at a time until it is "really hard to push" but works every time.  That will allow for substantial wear before it gets sloppy.  It will get much easier with just a little wear and maybe a small amount of lube as the surfaces mate better (I guess you could polish the surfaces also).

[David R. Pennington]

I redesigned my spring and deepened the mortise for it. This allows for a longer spring. This time I made a simple el shaped spring catch with a barbed "nail" filed on the end and drove it into the end grain. I made a little slot in the spring where the end of the button goes. I turned down a little protrusion to fit into the spring slot. The button end is turned down a little smaller than the original diameter (20d nail). After a little adjusting it works. I hardened it and put it in a little tin of oil and heated the oil to flash and set it down in the wood stove to burn off last night. Hopefully I have a good spring temper on it now. Now to put it back in and see if it still works!
I'm not too concerned with accidental opening as the button is far enough to the side of the arc of the but plate and on the outside if you shoot it right handed that it shouldn't come in direct contact with the shoulder. I did one once before in the but and it worked ok. I did the spring different on it, but I wanted to try to do this one close to how the original looks.