Help Identifying a Fowler and Horn for a Friend

[Bill-52]

I'm way out of my comfort zone on these later half stock percussions.  This fowler and horn has been in a friend's family for generations but they know nothing about it excepy that it has been handed down through the family.  No markings on the barrel.  The family has been in the Boston area.  Possibly New England origins?  I've not seen the rifle personally.  Only these photos from the family.

Any help on dating and possible area of origin would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Bill

[Hungry Horse]

Bill-52:

  You keep saying rifle, but the OTR barrel, and the lack of a rear sight other than a groove in the breech makes me believe this is a fouler not a rifle. The butt plate also looks like a fouler. The walnut stock, and the "bar in wood" forward part of the lock, are late percussion features, on both sides of the pond.

              Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

Bill-52;

  The powder horn looks severely over cleaned. It may be just a bad picture. But, if this is indeed the case, please keep the person that did this away from the gun. The gun is worthy of a professional restoration.


                    Hungry Horse

[Bill-52]

Hungry Horse,

You're right in describing this as a fowler not a rifle; sloppy description on my part.  I've made the necessary corrections.  I'm not familar with the term "bar in wood".  Are you referring to the relatively thin shape of the forward part of the lock?

And I agree with you about keeping the family from cleaning it.  It's easy to envision someonej "just getting rid of the rust".

Bill

[Hungry Horse]

Bill-52;

  Yes, thats the term for the late style locks, that don't have a metal filler bar above the forward portion of the lock plate. Most of these guns were made in the 1860's-the early 1890's. Some early cartridge guns show the same style.

               Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

It's a generic shotgun of the period likely factory made, without any local characteristics.  More valuable to the family than collectors.

[Bob Roller]

I find a #50 drill a good size for a touch hole. It is .070 diameter.

Bob Roller

[jwiant]

I stumbled on this last night.  Kind of the same.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=344789287

[Mike Brooks]

English or Belgian, 1850-1870. Pretty typical condition for these.

[JTR]

It's easy to envision someonej "just getting rid of the rust".

Bill

I know what you meant by the above comment, but someone really does need to get rid of the rust.
So far it's rusted to the point that it'll never have a smooth finish again, and if they just continue to let it rust, before long it will just be a rusted up pile of junk.

If it were my friend, I'd suggest that someone take some 4 ot steel wool or a green pot scrubber, squirt some 3 in 1 oil on it and carefully scrub that red rust off.
Then take a bit of Howards Feed-n-Wax furniture polish and rub the stock down good. That'll remove some of the grime and leave to wood looking pretty decent. Yeah, that might remove some of the patina, but at this point I don't see that being much of an issue.

Family's tend to hang onto things that look nice and are interesting. A rusted up old gun will likely end up in a handy dumpster in a generation or two, and it would be a shame to have this old one disappear.

John

 

[jdm]

I'm with John on this one. That is a lot of rust. It would be benifical to slow it down . Gently

[Bill-52]

Thanks, all, for the insights, comments and suggestions.  I hope this information on their family firearm will incent them to give it the care it needs.

Much appreciated,
Bill

[nord]

The firearm in question is what many consider a trade piece... Made for the trade. My first thought is Belgian though Birmingham isn't out of the question. And while an antique these pieces are generally not terribly collectible.

The horn? It could be anything from a homemade piece to a hardware store item. Again, not highly prized in general unless connected with someone or something of historical importance.

I've shared the above not to discourage you or to disparage these items in any way at all. I suspect that the gun was made far closer to the Civil War than later. Perhaps a bit before in fact. This type of firearm was affordable by anyone in need of such and put food on many a table. It, in fact, probably has seen more history than many a fine Pennsylvania rifle.

One last comment... This very type of firearm was used by a local gentleman who joined a NY unit at the start of the Civil War. He took the gun with him when he mustered in and was only somewhat later supplied with a standard arm. The man who now owns the piece still has the return shipping label from when the gun arrived back home.

[Hungry Horse]

I'd avoid the steel wool, and scotch bright, at least to start with. More antiques have been turned into neat old junk with these products in the hands of a novice than can be counted without a calculator.  Shoot the parts down with a good industrial penetrating material, like AreoKroil ( the best). If you can't turn up AreoKroil, liquid wrench, or WD40 ( the worst), might get you there. Disassemble the gun, take the metal parts, and spray them with the solvent, and wrap them in plastic wrap, and leave them in a nice warm place for a few days. Much of the surface rust will wipe off. Repeat the process, and if you get stubborn spots that won't come off, work on them with a piece of wood with a beveled edged cut  on the end, and some more solvent. I use a popsicle stick with the afore mentioned bevel cut on the end.

                Hungry Horse

[Hungry Horse]

 Oh, and way before any of these other steps, check to see if it is loaded. Most are, either by some great grandfather, or good old uncle Shelby, the family idiot, back when he was about twelve.

               Hungry Horse