Attaching Trigger Guard.

[dannylj]

The fowler triggerguard I am ready to install has 3 lugs. One just in front of bow and 2 along the rear. The front lug falls on top of the forward portion of the trigger plate. What is the best way to attach at the front. I have considered cutting off the lug and drilling my tang bolt hole thru both the trigger plate and guard and tapping the guard but it is a little thin. I am probably missing something simple. I might could cut off the forward part of the trigger plate. Thanks  Danny

[Mark Elliott]

You can always move the lug.   Most people cut it off and silver solder it back on in another position.  I prefer making a new lug with a post that will allow you to rivet it to the front extension of the guard.   You could also trim back the trigger plate if it is longer than you really need, or trim both the trigger plate and the lug.   Usually the tang bolt enters the trigger plate just behind the front of the bow.   At least this is the best position for it.   If the tang bolt lands behind the bow or front extension, then it tends to push the bow or front extension out as you compress the wood under the tang.   I see this all the time on old guns.   

[Hungry Horse]

 I have an old rifle, that has very little wood between the ramrod hole, and the bottom of the forearm. This gun has a pin set very shallow in the forestock, and a hook for the front mount on the triggerguard. The hook engages the pin, and them the triggerguard, is sprung into place, and held with a screw, the the rear.

                        Hungry Horse

[Dennis Glazener]

I am probably missing something simple. I might could cut off the forward part of the trigger plate. Thanks  Danny

Can you cut a slot in the trigger plate and let the lug extend through the plate? I have done that a time or two. An 1/8 or 3/16" slot should be thick enough. File lug down to fit it.
Dennis

[Pete G.]

I would either trim the plate a little bit or build a new one from flat stock.

[Yancey von Yeast]

Dennis is right on.  Several of my original English fowlers have slotted trigger plates for the lug.  Often the lug was filed so that it slid forward 1/16" - 1/8" to lock against the trigger plate.  This is from a 1760's gun by Humphreys.

Good luck,
Yancey

[dannylj]

Thanks for the great ideas. They give me some options. Slotting the plate may be the best option although I hate cutting slots in flat stock.  Thanks  Danny

[Long Ears]

Danny, of the many things I have learned to do building long rifles it is how to silver solder parts and pieces together. It seems like a lot of the casting gates are either not where I want them or too short. Lots of file work and thinkin. Dennis is right on as usual. Bob

[shortbarrel]

i just don't get this silver solder thing. to me silver solder is lead, tin and silver. silver brazing is brass or bronze and silver. silver brazing takes around cherry read heat for it to flow and the joint is strong. used it in a few restorations and many other things over the years. what is the difference?? in terminology

[bgf]

i just don't get this silver solder thing. to me silver solder is lead, tin and silver. silver brazing is brass or bronze and silver. silver brazing takes around cherry read heat for it to flow and the joint is strong. used it in a few restorations and many other things over the years. what is the difference?? in terminology

I think your terminology is correct, but some people use "silver solder" interchangeably with brazing using silver fill.

Also, I don't know about every one else, but for me, the newer lead-free "silver bearing solder" has blurred the lines.  It is not as strong as brazing (whatever fill you use) and has a higher melting point (~450dF) than old lead-based solder but it is much stronger than older "soft" solders.  So, if you construct a joint with some mechanical strength (e.g. rivet post on to triggerguard) and fix it in place with the silver bearing solder, it is functionally identical in many cases to a brazed butt joint without the need for the high heat.

[davec2]

There are hundreds of silver and gold based "brazing" and / or "soldering" alloys (most often differentiated by the temperature of the joining process.) Copper, zinc, tin, lead, bismuth, cadmium, etc., etc., can also be used to adjust the liquidus temperature of the alloy and its strength, wetting properties, etc.

 Here are just a few silver based alloys from one manufacturer:

http://www.sarusilver.com/high-silver-brazing-alloys.html

In general, the higher the joining temperature required, the stronger the joint.  But, as noted by others, some of the very low temperature alloys are more than sufficiently strong for the type of joint being made.  I use a lot of "braze" alloys that have a high gold content for much of the specialized work I do.  While most joints are done with a torch, many are done in a furnace, and some, very specialized brazing, is done in a hydrogen atmosphere furnace (a strongly reducing environment requiring no flux in the joining process.)

[kutter]

Thanks for the great ideas. They give me some options. Slotting the plate may be the best option although I hate cutting slots in flat stock.  Thanks  Danny

If you don't like cutting slots into in flat stock,,the rigger plate in this case,,you can file the lug on the guard back till it's no more than a round post. Use the length of the existing lug to figure a spot where the 'post' will be most advantagous in your final fit-up.
As you then drill a simple round hole thru the trigger plate to install the guard. Rivit it over on the inside, counter sink it or not.

The post doesn't have to be a perfect round post either, you can cheat a little and leave it flat sided to give it a bit more diameter size to it. It'll all rivit itself into place when that's done.
The idea is not to have to cut slots and use a single drilled hole only.

Since the much smaller round brass post hasn't near the strength as the lug would have had and pulling the guard free isn't what you want to see done in the future,,,When assembling,  tin the contact surfaces of the trigger plate and the guard before you rivit.
Sweat solder the joint as the final riviting taps are applied. Make sure of your allaignment of course.
The tail of the guard needs to be right and not pointing S by SW out of the toe line of the stock.
Place it back in the stock after riviting but not soldered to make sure of allaignment. Then carefully remove and solder.
The tang screw should be already fitted, drilled and tapped into the trigger plate.

The trigger plate and guard are one piece now but they would also be one piece if just rivited together w/ a square lug too,,and you just didn't have to cut a square slot.

'Silver' bearing soft solder,,,lead/tin soft solt,,,that's all you really need for a job like this.  
The Silver bearing soft solder stuff has a better 'takes more to pull it apart' rating than lead/tin but it will always stay bright white so any solder lines will show.
Probably not a concern here if the guard overlaps the trigger plate and onto the wood.

I still call hard solder ,,silver solder. It's confusing when I and others still do  since the silver soft solders came on the scene. Not our fault though!
..and brazing,,that was always soldering with brass.

Lots of confusing use of terms