Sight picture

[PPatch]

When I first learned to shoot at around six or seven years old by my dad, a sergeant in the army, I was taught to align the sights at the bottom of the target. Meaning front post at the very bottom of the circle, "V", (object), rear site top leveled with the top of the post. Through the decades since I have always used that sight picture. I have shot a lot of rifle matches with that technique, and was taught the same when I was a service member. I can tell you I hit what I aim at.

Recently I have shot with a self-taught gentleman that aims for the center of the target, in other words his sight picture has the front sight bisecting the middle of his target and the rear leveled with the front post in the usual way. He aims center mass with his rifle. He also hits what he aims at.

My question is: how many of you aim center and how many aim normal (sights on the bottom of the target).

My take is you can do what my friend does within closer ranges but once you get out to 200, 600, 1000 yards you had better be using a sight picture with the sights leveled at the bottom of the target because you simply will not be able to effectively, visually, bisect that bullseye by holding in the middle.

dp

[Vomitus]

  My Pa was military also and that's how he taught me. Just see the top of the post in the bottom of the notch,be it a slot or a "V". When I started muzzleloading with a Hawken type, the buckhorn  sent me for a loop. So I changed. Some of the boys around here have gone to a shallow "V" and drop the "ball" into the bottom of the "V". Great for a hunting rifle.

[Robby]

Same here PPatch.
Robby

[moleeyes36]

PPatch, for me the best aim point seems to be different with different kinds of targets.  Buy this I mean that I prefer a dead on hold for hunting but target work is different for me.  For target work I always preferred the "six o'clock" hold that you describe.  That works well for me on conventional bulls eye style targets, but not for non conventional style targets, like Hafner, novelty, or primitive targets.  It may just be me, but using the six o'clock hold I have trouble determining just where to hold on those targets.  Consequently, for consistency, I've recently started adjusting my hold for all shooting to dead on to see how that works out.

I shoot ML off hand at 100 yards or less; that's about my limit off hand.  However, I shoot a Swedish M96 Mauser in old ordnance rifle matches at 200 and 300 yards and I find the same as you do at those distances.  Once you get out to 200, 600, 1000 yards you had better be using a sight picture with the sights leveled at the bottom of the target because you simply will not be able to effectively, visually, bisect that bulls eye by holding in the middle.

[ehoff]

I fall into the center hold category. The main reason for this is most of the targets that the clubs I shoot at are critters or novelty targets. I find it hard to do a six o clock hold on these types of targets and resighted to center aim. If I was only shooting bulls eye targets I'd go back to a six o clock hold.

[WadePatton]

Well, yes and no.  6 o'clock for targets and then I move the blade/bead deeper/shallower in the notch, according to range/inclination for center hits.  

Somehow i've never adjusted open sights (from 6:00) to center sighting-but have no problem with game shots.  

This may change as i convert to the wide-vee/bead. All previous was Patridge-style.

[Frizzen]

It's center for me. Same for wife.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I'm a centre hold type too.  We rarely shoot at targets, and when we do, it is some novelty target like flies or cherries or such.  And our trail has tough shots like horizontal strings, straws on a 45 deg angle, tack drive, etc.  Hold does one hold 6 o'clock on those?  And since my vision isn't what it could be, I have opted for the type of sight pictured on my Hawken below.  It is a shallow "V" with a fine bead.  This sight is wonderful for poor light first thing in the morning or last thing in the evening.  The English call it a "B" sight, as it looks like a capital letter "B" laying horizontal.  The bead naturally rolls down into the bottom of the "V" and just sits there - nothing your eyes can do about it.  So, as with an aperture sight system, all you have to do is worry about where the bead is.  And the bead is simply a 45 degree angle filed and polished on the tip of my silver front sight.  It gathers light like crazy and always shows as an apparent round bead.
For long range shooting, I always place the bead where I want the ball to go, and simply drop the rear sight to show more of the front.  At a certain range, seeing the entire front sight base above the bottom of the "V" will be right on, and at another, seeing the sight's shiney ball level with the top of the ears will be right on, and for another, seeing the base level with the top of those ears will be right on.  A little experimenting and filing will give you sight pictures for stuff right out to 300 + yds.  You shouldn't expect more than that from open iron sights.

[moleeyes36]

I have a larger caliber half stock plains style rifle that has similar sights and I also find that sight picture works well for hunting.  Of course all my rear sights have inched a little farther forward over the years.

[PPatch]

Good description of your style Taylor and yes, if you are hitting at 300 plus yards using open sights you are doing well.

Seems cutting center is more prevalent than I suspected. Makes sense though on odd sized targets closer in. When I was trained in the military shooting at pop up man-sized targets from 25 out to 300 yards one had to adjust the sight picture to account for the apparent distance. Point blank was at 300 yards so anything closer required having a good idea of where to place the sights for a hit, might even be way under the target. Now that I think on it this is true for any sort of shooting. I guess those years of match shooting made me a stickler for that six o'clock hold. My eyes are gone for that kind of shooting and I think my brain is fossilizing with age...

dp

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The farthest target at Heffley this year was 385 yds.  They gave you five shots at it, with each shot scoring fewer points until you hit it, or not.  I just kept showing more barrel above the rear sight, always keeping the bead in the centre of the plate.  Finally on the third shot, I found a reflection of the front bead about half way down the barrel toward the rear sight, and placed this in the notch, and bingo - scored!  A guy from Calgary won that match with some awesome shooting.

[Jerry V Lape]

Target shooting the post at bottom of the bull is good, provided you are sighted in for that range and bull size.  Hunting I want a center hold which I can then adjust on the animal based on range estimation.

[Candle Snuffer]

I've always used the center hold.  Tried the 6 o'clock hold a few times and didn't care for it.  I've shot center hold for such a long time now that applying windage and elevation at targets beyond 50 yards just comes natural, and if I need to adjust my POA, I just do it on the next shot.  Granted, if I were a true bulls'eye shooter, I'd probably use a 6 o'clock hold and an adjustable  rear sight,,, but all my rifles except one has fixed sights.

[wattlebuster]

All my shootin is close an by close Im talking 75 yrd or less with less much better. Im a center hold

[Tom Cooper]

6 o'clock hold on paper and center hold for everything else works well for me.

[oldarcher]

I have been taught many ways to hold on target, in ROTC as a boy we were taught the Army way...6  o'clock...I had to unlearn the center target hold that I used on the farm. That 6 o'clock hold stayed with me for a long time, I think that the real reason is that everyone in the military was to use the same method was so that if you picked up someone else's rifle under duress the rifle would shoot the same as yours. Depending on the metallic sight I use whatever feels right for the rifle that I am planning to shoot. I prefer to shoot 1/2 stock rifles but do not like the Buckhorn style of rear sight, when I build a rifle I always choose a flat top profile rear sight. I now always use the center mass aiming point simply because the size of the target and distance to the target are factors in accurate shooting. The other reason is that I now also shoot a red dot two eyes open sight on my AR's and that seems best to center the sight on the target. I really believe that you should do whatever feels most comfortable and the only right sight picture is the one that YOU can hit with most consistently.

[tuffy]

After 22 years in the military I use 6 o'clock for paper and center mass for everything else.

      CW

[Daryl]

 Taylor's method is the best for trail walks and hunting, imho.