Trial Balloon??? Please comment thoughtfully...don't throw stones

[Hurricane ( of Virginia)]

A suggestion has emerged from the thoughtfull comments on ways to promote Kentucky Rifle preservation and its heritage. That one create  a  more obvious public image promotion ,  paradime shift if you will,  from " gun, firearm" to " a unique American ART form". This could engage the whole Art and Antique collecting community.  Your coments,( I hope) are welcome. If there is any support for this idea, how to accomplish it?
Hurricane

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It's an interesting and valid topic.  Just this past month, our local art gallery, who now has an innovative and open minded young woman running some of their programs, invited me to create a display of my longrifles in the gallery.  It was in conjunction with a "It's Hunting Season" theme, and there were other artisans displaying fly fishing tackle,  hand made archery equipment, custom knives, etc....a real artisan's show.  Together with that and slightly prior to the display, I was interviewed by one of our local papers.  The reporter came to my shop, tentatively at first, and photographed several aspects of the shop and one of my rifles.  She wrote a very good article describing the what and why of it all.  The result of all this has been an overwhelming response, often from people I don't even know.  The display alone created far more community interest and exposure than years of attending our local Gun Show.  The Art Galley draws an entirely different group of people than the Gun Show, with some overlap naturally.  But all this is to support Hurricane's concept.  Once the dogma of 'the gun' is removed, doors open that otherwise remain bolted.

[gibster]

Many years ago, (more than I care to admit) while stationed at Charleston AFB in South Carolina, the Arts and Crafts shop on base hosted an arts and crafts contest/show where anyone could enter something for display.  I talked to them and after clearance with the Security Police, I was allowed to enter a flintlock rifle that I had built for my daughter.  I had to include a poster describing how it was made, tools used, ect.  The organizers were pretty skeptical of allowing it because they viewed it as a "gun".  Long story short, it ended up taking 1st place  in the 3-d Fine Arts category.  Looking at the rifle today, it is rather crude, but it is what it is.  I don't think that the rifle won due to artistical merit, but more for what it represents to our history as a Nation.  I guess my point is that there are those in the Arts world that do view a longrifle as an art form.  In recent years, I have set up at a couple of antique/craft shows with some original rifles on display and it has always received lots of attention.  I have to admit that I had an ulterior motive as I had a sign that I was looking to buy .  Anyway, I think that the general public is generally interested in the old longrifles due to their history, but they aren't exposed to them enough to generate an interest in collecting.

[nord]

Just to add to Fred's comments...

Fred and I just spent over an hour on the phone discussing everything from the morons in DC to our Long Rifles. We both observed the increasing amounts of gray hair or no hair at our shows. This doesn't bode well for the future. It especially doesn't bode well for the value of our prized antiques over the long term. And whether we admit it or not, value is important!

Fred and I both agree that there exists a place for exclusive organizations such as the KRA. The problem we see is that it does little good to be exclusive if those outside the group either don't know about it or don't care to join. After a time "exclusive" means nothing as there is no one to exclude.

It would seem to me that very few of us really expect someone new to our genera of antiques to be willing or able to lay out big dollars. Usually the nicer items are acquired over time as finances and interest increase. If we were really honest with each other it would become abundantly clear that KRA membership tends to signify that one has reached a certain "level" if you will. Again... Nothing wrong here, except that if there isn't a line of those aspiring to reach this level,  then  "exclusive" may be better defined as terminal.

Then the matter of "Long Rifle". Unfortunately in this day and age the term "rifle" equates to firearm... Which equates to Columbine or any number of unfortunate incidents and totally turns a good portion of the population away from us. Perhaps we should begin to emphasize the historic and artistic importance of our antiques and downplay the firearms aspect.

If you doubt this it might be of some profit to look back to WW2 where the SS had taken over the fine porcelain industry. Such pieces made in the Nazi era carry the SS runes, but this tends to be overlooked by collectors because of the quality. Looked upon in this light the "market" for such items would be much smaller if offered as SS relics and not fine porcelain. Think about it if you will. The items are the same but the presentation is different.

My point being that amongst those outside our immediate fraternity I take great pains to make sure that the firearms aspect of our antiques is placed in proper context. These are not considered firearms under US law and many (if not the majority) haven't been used for their original purpose for well over a century and more. They, however, are a treasure trove of art, religion, superstition, and history rivaling and surpassing many artisans who applied their considerable talents to canvas or other media.  

Why is it so wrong to consider opening our doors to those outside our fraternity? Why should we not promote the aspects of our antiques generally held dear by academics and downplay the firearms aspect when dealing with these folks? Should such as they become interested in our antiques only for their artistic or historical value, what's the harm?

And if even a small number of these folks aspired to join the KRA and waited for an invitation? Then "exclusive" would begin to have meaning. Pray tell how this could be a bad thing?

Fred and I encourage your ideas. Neither of us ask you to agree with our thoughts. All we're looking for is an avenue to expand and continue the interest in our artifacts of choice. Your thoughts and comments will be most welcome.

[Levy]

Years ago, I was asked to join with a friend of mine who was having an art show at the local gallery.  He is a great artist and has built some muzzleloaders and their accoutrements.  I put some of my paltry work in the show along with some clothes, antlers, tools and gun parts.  It had the second greatest attendance of any show they'd ever had and brought in a much broader crown than usual. 

James Levy

[Mark Elliott]

Like I said in another thread,  a lot of folks are interested by guns, particularly kids (some, maybe too much), we just have to get past the liberal gatekeepers.   As such, it is probably not a bad idea to make sure we  stress the American longrifle as a unique American art form, but I don't think we should completely obscure what it is.   It is a gun, a firearm,  a weapon.    It just isn't a modern gun, firearm,  or weapon with anything close to the level of lethality of a semi-automatic or automatic weapon.   I like to refer to them generically as American longrifles.   I think it tells you exactly what it is.   We just have to get the public to think unique American art form when they hear American longrilfes.    When I see or hear "longrifle",  I think art, something beautiful in form and function.   We need the public to think the same thing.   It could help us not only preserve the collecting and traditional crafts hobby,  it could help us protect it politically.   I am very conscious of this when I talk about what I do.

My elevator speech about what I do is "I build museum quality flintlock sporting arms and accouterments."   Each word was purposely chosen to decouple the connection with the modern gun/firearm and mass killings and connect it will museums(art) and sports(harmless, politically correct  pursuit).   

Just in case this post ends up in public, I want to make clear that my intention is not to make something that is a threat to life, peace and order to seem otherwise.    I want the public to see longrifles as I do, which is not as a threat to public safety, but a representation of the finest combination of art and function our nation has produced.    To me, it was intended as a tool for commercial hunters, possibly as many native americans as Europeans.    It may have been used in extreme situations to both take and protect human life, but that was not it's intended purpose.   Of course there are those in the collecting/building community that criticize this view as intellectually dishonest.   However,  it is how I look at,  and I think it is how we have to present it to the liberal art community and the community at large. 

I have found that people are very receptive to what I do as long as I present it correctly and present myself correctly.   Correctly means in a very non-threatening way.   It think it has done the NMLRA a world of good to have an attractive woman as president.    She is a non-threating face of the shooting sport.  Politics and atmospherics are important (as much as it seems sometimes that I don't get this  ).   We all need to act as ambassadors to our avocation and vocation.    I don't think it would hurt at all to remind ALL collectors, builders, and shooters of this.   

I work as an independent contractor that provides virtual reality tours to AT&T for the online Yellow Pages.    They refer to all their contract photographers as ambassadors.    Sometimes it seems kinda pretentious and silly, but there are times I want to tell a client to you know what "off" and I remember that I am an ambassador for my employer and their employer.    At that point, I make an extra effort to act professionally.   What you call something or someone does matter.   

[Curt J]

I have often told people with an interest in art and/or antiques, that I believe the American Long Rifle to be American Folk Art at its finest.  The combination of skills required in their manufacture, was not equaled by any other art form that I am aware of.  These would often include blacksmith, whitesmith, locksmith, joiner, silversmith, wood carver, machinist, engraver and more.

I periodically have the opportunity to make presentations about early Illinois guns and gunmakers, to historical societies and other groups, throughout the state.  I always try to stress the artistic and historical aspects of the subject, in an attempt to appeal to those who have minimal knowledge of firearms.  It is always well received. In most cases, there have been around equal numbers of men and women in attendance. I usually talk for around 45 minutes, then answer question for another 45 minutes or more. I always try to tailor my display and the details of my presentation, to the area where I am speaking, and it is advertised that way. About two months ago, I did such a presentation for the Decatur, Illinois Conservation District, highlighting makers from East Central Illinois. It was very well attended, among the best they have had, I was told.  Prior to going there, I received a call from producer/host at a PBS TV station in Springfield, Illinois, who had seen the advertising.  He asked if I would be willing to do an interview with him, for a half hour TV program, called "Illinois Stories". I agreed, and he was at my door with a cameraman, the following Monday. I was very pleased with the results, and have had a number of compliments on it. It was not aired where I live, but was aired across central Illinois, from Decatur to Quincy. It is now on youtube, as all of the "Illinois Stories" series are, after they have been aired. If anyone is interested in watching it, search "Illinois Stories with Mark McDonald".  It is listed as "19th Century Gun Collector."

I would encourage anyone who has the opportunity, to promote our interest in similar fashion.

[Dennis Glazener]

I just finished watching Curt's documentary film and it was great, well done and I am sure it enhanced interest IL gunmakers and their products, thanks for doing it Curt.

Dennis

[mountainman70]

Y'all may find this hard to believe,I certainly do/did.Within our m/l folks here in the metro Charleston,Wva area,100 mile radius, a group of artisans and 'skinners have been putting on "Living History"demos and such at grade schools and other events for a good while.The response has been good for the most part.I am cautiously optomistic for our young folk to join us.I was always interested in our hobby,it wasnt until I was nearly 30 before I was able to enter,on a limited budget,with small youngens
We gotta start somewhere,I'm with you guys.Thanks,Dave

[Curt J]

Thank you, Dennis.

[Don Getz]

After reading a lot of the comments above, you might understand why we call our Lewisburg show the "18th Century Artisans
Show".    We try to get a good mix of artisans and try to appeal to the general public.  We have also found what is probably
one of the best places to have such a show.  Our "home" in the Country Cupboard" offers everything that you would look for
to do a show of this type....good food, good motel, parking, etc.     We alway have a sell-out on tables, and a list of those who
would like to have a table.  If you haven't made the trip there, you should........Don

[Spotz]

I spoke with Hurricane this morning and during our conversation I came up with a bit of an impromptu idea.  While there is value in treating long rifles as objects of art, they are foremost pieces of history.  As a history major, I researched early rifles in every class where I had the chance.  What I shared with Hurricane is that we should be reaching out to colleges' and universities' history departments to encourage students to complete original research that could be shared with collectors.  Yes, there may be skepticism about academia but I found interest from faculty and staff that never had any exposure to the topics on which I wrote papers.  In the process, we may help build interest in our "cause" from those that may be interested in history but never exposed to the longrifle.  These same types of relationships with local historical societies may also prove mutually beneficial.   

[smokinbuck]

I also had an opportunity to speak with Fred at some length a few evenings ago and found that we share many of the same thoughts, as obviously many of you do. Of the many things we discussed was the public perception that "the longrifle is just another gun".  I feel strongly that an effort needs to be made to counter that perception before we can move very far into the public domain. My personal collection falls into a three part category that I describe as "working, sporting and fine art". As I said to Fred, I consider the  longrifle and it's accoutrements to be part of the history of our country's growth through what has become "Historical Folkart". I also feel that presented in this manner, in the right venue, that doors will open that have here to fore have remained closed due to mis-conceptions, mis-information and a lack of education.
Mark