Details, details

[Nordnecker]

So what are the defining characteristics of a "Southern" gun? Is a "Poor-boy" gun just a bare bones build from any region, or is this a southern type as well? Is Poor-boy and "Barn gun" the same thing?

[Mark Elliott]

A southern gun is one that is made in the south.   A poor boy is not necessarily a southern gun.    In the north, they were called schimels or barn guns.   A southern gun can be a fancy carved and engraved rifle of the highest order or a crude iron mounted rifle.    There are no particular characteristics of a "southern gun".    There are many different schools of gun making in each southern state such as VA or NC just like there are in PA.     Gunsmiths moved south and west from the Lancaster area with the rest of the population.   The guns evolved and changed as the gunsmiths and the population in general moved down the Great Wagon road and west.   

[whitebear]

Mark has written  a very interesting and informative book on rifles and etc. from Georgia.

[Dennis Glazener]

Mark has written  a very interesting and informative book on rifles and etc. from Georgia.

Whitebear,
I believe you have mixed Mark Elliott with Wayne Elliott. To my knowledge Mark Elliott has not written any book, though I am sure he is capable of doing one. Wayne Elliott teamed with Dr. James Whisker on Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Georgia and is available here : http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23826.0
Dennis

[RAT]

I'm not against the use of the terms "poor boy", "barn gun", or "schimel". Just keep in mind while doing research that these are modern terms not used during the 18th and 19th centuries. As such, each person has their own interpretation of what they might mean. The term "plain" does show up in original gunsmith advertisements.

[Kermit]

Yes! Thank you, Rat!

[rich pierce]

All good answers above.  The defining characteristics of Southern guns are where they were made.  Now there are styles that are characteristic to unique to the South and you are probably most familiar with what is generically known as the Southern poor boy rifle.  In the 1970s and 1980s some makers of kits put together some iron furniture based on a few examples of late flint/early percussion guns probably made in Tennessee and started marketing kits with the highly respected but inappropriate Siler lock which was a style used elsewhere and earlier.  And so a whole generation or two of folks who were not focused on historical examples of specific schools of Southern guns began to believe there was "one type" of gun made in the South during the flintlock period and it was an iron mounted, walnut stocked, small caliber rifle without carving, known as the "poor boy".  That neglects the vast array of rifles made in the South from before the Revolutionary War well into the Golden Age.  Unfortunately though there have been a number of great book resources on Pennsylvania rifles that have helped us understand the wide number of schools or styles of rifles made there, I am not sure there's a comparable wide-reaching resource on Southern flintlocks.  If you have an interest in a specific region and timeframe, there are experts here who can help you find originals to study.

[whitebear]

Mark has written  a very interesting and informative book on rifles and etc. from Georgia.

Whitebear,
I believe you have mixed Mark Elliott with Wayne Elliott. To my knowledge Mark Elliott has not written any book, though I am sure he is capable of doing one. Wayne Elliott teamed with Dr. James Whisker on Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Georgia and is available here : http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=23826.0
Dennis

Dennis you are certainly correct, as usual, my mistake thanks for correcting it for me.

[HIB]

Nordnecker,  Not certain where you live or how your interest has settled on this topic but there are two excellent CLA/KRA shows on the near horizon that will benefit you greatly. The first is in a few weeks at the Lake Cumberland State Resort Park in Jamestown Kentucky. It would be a grand experience for you if you are within driving distance.
   The second which is in April is held at lake Norris in Tennessee as well. Check the ALR section for the proper dates.
   Both of these shows feature Southern Longrifles both original and Contemporary.
   If you can get to one or the other or both I guarantee you will be planning to return the following year.
   There are also a number of affiliate shows along the coastal States [Williamsburg in March] and up in Pa. that will bring your attention to the Northern influence of the Kentucky Rifle whether plain or fancy. The Southern shows, however, will give you enough to think about for years to come.
    Whatever you decide, get out and mix it up with the greatest collector/builder group in our country. They are a friendly group.  Regards, HIB

[Don Getz]

Those terms  "poor boy, schimmel, barn gun" are all new.  I would be curious to know how many of these plain guns were
overlooked by the old time collectors.  I can recall going to a muzzleloading shoot back in the early 70's and ran into Bob
Hoyt with a gun that he called a "poor boy".  It had a nice stock of curly maple, and the thing thing I remember about it was
the forend which was shaped like a "V", no buttplate or sideplate.  I think Chuck Dixon was responsible for the term "schimmel"', and I don't know who created the "barn gun" term.  So, if you make one it doesn't really matter that much
what you call it.........Don

[whitebear]

"I don't know who created the barn gun term"
Wasn't that you Don?

[mike blair]

i asked my wife (who is from Berlin) what the definition of schimmel was.she  told me it means arm as in weapon(in a very general sense),mold and white horse.she had to call her father in germany to get the arms definition.had never heard it used that way before.

[Dale Halterman]

Pretty sure I heard the term "barn gun" when I was a kid visiting relatives in West Virginia back in the 50's and 60's. It referred to any ratty old gun that was kept in the barn to dispatch vermin and whatnot. I still have an old 16 ga H&A single shot shotgun one of my uncles gave me when I found it tucked into a corner of one of his old barns.

Dale H

[Bob Roller]

I knew about the weapon and mold definition but not the Weiss Pferd.
Languages are fun and living as a boy in "Ein Deutch Nachbarschaft warend
mein Jugendzeit" probably stimulated my interest.

Bob Roller