Gain twist rifling

[Chunker119]

I have been reading and found some interesting info on gain twist rifling. So what is the opinions of those that have used gain twist barrels? Thanks.

[Dphariss]

I have been reading and found some interesting info on gain twist rifling. So what is the opinions of those that have used gain twist barrels? Thanks.

Going to depend on workmanship and uniformity of material just like always.
When shooting bullets with ling bearing surfaces very slight gains work best. Round balls do not care much.
The best shooting barrel I own is a gain twist by Jim McLemore.
With a scope Jim has assured me it will shoot through the same hole at 100. He tests them all before shipping.
See Sleepy Hill Barrels.

Dan

[Longknife]

I had an original barrel bored out to 40 cal. by Boby Hoyt with a gain of 1-60 to 1-40 in the 37 inch length. This was back in the 80's, won many a shoot, it was a tack-driver, didn't seem to matter what charged I used, lots of head shot squirrels.....Ed

[little joe]

Only ever owned one gain twist, a Wm. Large Hawken bbl. Best target I ever shot was with it at 50 yds 50xx on a small 6 bull. That was when I could see.

[hanshi]

I currently own only one gain twist barrel.  I'm not able to speak of gain twist vs standard in general terms but this particular barrel just happens to be phenomenally accurate.  Although the physics of GT barrels is well beyond my understanding, one fact is patently clear; it does no harm for the rifling to get faster toward the muzzle.  This is why.  A perfectly uniform rate of twist is accurate; but a twist rate that "hiccups" and even begins to slow down is ruinous to accuracy.  As insurance, a barrel maker can, if anything, let the rate of twist speed up toward the muzzle even if the rate of gain is almost impossible to measure.  A prb/bullet doesn't do well with a slowing impediment even that small.

[Bob Roller]

The controversy about gain vs uniform rifling in a gun barrel will never be really settled but I do remember helping Bill Large make a steel guide for a gain twist and it certainly worked well with a round ball.
Harry Pope made breech loaders that worked best when loaded thru the false muzzle and they used elongated cylindrical grease grooved bullets.The starting twist in the Pope barrel was usually a 1:16 and terminated in a 1:15.75.
That is hard to detect with the naked eye but the accuracy attained spoke for itself.
N.G Whitmore,maker of the fine match and hunting rifle for General Grant after the uncivil War used a gain twist and 12 grooves and according to Major Ned Roberts,his barrels and rifles were declared as unfair competition in some matches and barred.Read the report on Walter Cline's Whitmore rifle and its accuracy in a test at the old Peters cartridge company in 1935.It's in <The Muzzle Loading Rifle,then and now>.
Barrel maker Jim McLemore just called and told me he has NOT been making any finished barrels for about two years and his wife is now requiring constant attention and he is the primary care giver and little relief to be had.
He gave me permission to report this and I know for a fact that this has been an ongoing thing for several years.

Bob Roller

[dagner]

  WE ARE LOOSING OUR PERMERE BARREL MAKERS REAL FAST NOW. DEATH- ILLNESS IN FAMILY AND OLD AGE

[Chris Treichel]

The nice thing about Harry Pope is that he wrote a few articles and along with Maj Ned Robert's books are some of my favorite reading materials.
Here is Pope's article on gain twist rifling for a muzzleloader...
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/08/history-pope-rifle-barrels.html

[Chris Treichel]

The Secret of the Master is probably my favorite article and along with a Message to Garcia is one of those that I read at least once or twice a year.   

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/08/secret-of-old-master.html

[Daryl]

Having a slow impediment to the bullet caused by a slight gain twist is just as important today as back 'then'.

Some modern BR shooters have LONG BLANKS scoped and measured by computers to determine where to cut off the barrel to form not only the muzzle, but the breech as well. When dealing with really high velocities (over 3,000fps) even minor slowing of the twist has a deleterious effect on accuracy - oh, they'll shoot, but they'll never be consistent winners.  If they can cut the barrel as the twist rate increases, even slightly, the barrel will be more accurate - possibly a new SCREAMER barrel, possibly not ,but it has the potential to be a screamer - a barrel that shoots in the 1's (for a top shooter), no matter what  the wind is doing.

Likewise, this gain or increasing twist at the muzzle must also have a positive effect in our muzzleloading rifle barrels with round balls, perhaps requiring even more 'gain' to make much of a difference, but the physics and science is there - for us.

Hanshi - spot on, imho.

[t.caster]

Gene Carrell, how is that big .62 cal Bobby Hoyt GT barrel working for you??? Results?

[Gene Carrell]

I have a 62 cal gain twist bbl from Bob Hoyt that has been giving me fits. I finally phoned Mr. Hoyt and talked to him about it and he suggested that I was not loading itwith a high enough charge. I was (perhaps unrealistically) hopeful to get it shooting with 80-85 gr 3Fg loads. He suggested starting at 100gr and try 2Fg. I was trying 3Fg so as to use it for priming also on Canada trip (now cancelled). The weather and my wife's illness has slowed (halted) my trips to the range. Too many days at Cancer Center. We may get things straightened out and I will get back to it.

[Dphariss]

Rifling in a bore is almost never uniform, there are, or at least were, people who using modern measuring equipment, could tell the variations in twist. When shooting long bullets if the rifling goes into a regressive twist at the muzzle accuracy will suffer.
I suspect, but could not prove, that the gain twist arrived with the bullets of the early 19th c. Many picket rifles have gain twists. I believe this was to overcome the possibility of having the twist regress. This would not be a horrible problem with a RB. But if shooting picket that was marginally stable anyway it would be. Some rifles of this era have very significant gains, 2:1,  60" to 30" for example. With the short bearing surface of the cloth patched picket this was not a problem. With bullets with long bearing surfaces fast twists do not work well so twists in the 1/2" or even 1/4" gain appeared. These are still in use today for long bullets. They give the advantage of the gain without deforming or twisting the bullet faster at one end of the bearing surface than the other.
Back in the day of the cloth patch then thought, rightly I am sure, that the slower start and faster ending helped prevent the patch from being blown. This could also be the origin of the gain twist. We are not likely to find out at this late date 200 years out if not more (since I don't think anyone knows when the "gain" was invented. Could have been in Germany 300+ years ago for all I know.
Anyway this is my take on it and why IMO, gains were thought to be and probably were more accurate especially with more primitive rifling equipment.

Dan
 

[hammer]

I seem to recall that the colt revolvers (and or Remington?) had gain twist?    That would be for the short pointed bullets in the prepared cartridges, not rb.
Peter.

[Dphariss]

It was the in thing at the time. I suspect that this is why the Colts had it. The SAA was a uniform twist.
Colt was a master of marketing.
When the Civil War started he gave every Union General cased pistols, or so I have heard. A "belt" size and a pocket model.

Dan

[rhbrink]

Not wanting to offend any body on the PC-HC thing but one of the modern pistol manufacture's was and may still be offering  model with gain twist.

RB