When do lined pouches appear?

[BillOregon]

Anyone have an idea when the earliest lined hunting pouches appear in the record? I'd like to know if lining a hunting pouch with wool or "ticken" is just another "19th centuryism" or worse. I realize that documented hunting pouches of any description become very scarce prior to 1800.

[pathfinder]

I'm not a historian any anywhere near, but I tend to think in a Macro manner when it comes to accoutrement's and such.

Document pouches,shoulder bags and other everyday items were lined with everything from fine silk to burlap type textiles. I would assume(yeah,I know),that crossover was common.

It would also depend on where and who made it. An uneducated farm boy may lace together a couple of pieces of bark tanned hides and add a thong to sling it over his shoulder.

A person of more affluent means would have something a bit more refined made by a tradesman. And then there is EVERYTHING in between.

This is complete and total reckless speculation on my part, but after thirty five years of pouch and accoutrement making and reading all I could find,that's my story.

[James Rogers]

Add WHO AND WHERE to the when and it becomes more complex.
There is a circa 1700-1710 English pouch that is lined but it was used in England and by royalty and it also has a complicated hinged frame. There are even remnants of medieval lined pouches. They are Netherlandish in location though.
I am assuming you are probably referring to American frontier. If so, I cannot think of an 18th century example at the moment.

[Kermit]

Getting all over PC/HC? When did gun builders start using barrels made of steel and precarves made on duplicators?

[LRB]

  I can't see that comparison as relevant. You cannot tell steel from iron by looking at it, nor a finished gun from a pre-carve next to one from a blank. They both started from a blank.

[T*O*F]

When did gun builders start using barrels made of steel and precarves made on duplicators?

I think it was Eli Whitney who had that distinction.  Blanchard patented the first copy lathe in 1820.

[BillOregon]

I had in mind the initial appearance of lined pouches in Colonial North America when I posted the original question.

[Kermit]

  I can't see that comparison as relevant.

Then I guess it was a waste of time for Wallace Gussler to figure out how to forge an iron barrel.

In younger times I put great effort into a historical persona, and still admire those who do. At one event one of the "judges" wanted to examine my garments to determine if they were handsewn. I offered to disrobe in her presence so she could see the depth of my efforts at authenticity, but warned her that I'd used fabric that was woven on a modern machine loom from machine spun yarns, so should probably be disqualified immediately. There were good natured laughs all around. And I won.

It's all good clean fun, isn't it?

[JoeG]

I've looked at many an original bag over the last 40 years and have only found a few that were lined.
All of these were probably made in the 19th century by professional leather craftsman.
 Recently  I saw a fully lined shooting  bags that is part of  the James Gordon Collection, linen lined and appeared to be machine sewn.

I make both lined and unlined bags,and tell people that unlined is more correct, lined bags still seem to sell faster and at a higher price.

There are those of us that want something 100% HC , and some of us that just  don't worry about it.

I have photographed an original  1840's Dragoon valise that was fully lined in blue stripe ticking.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

Just speaking from my own experience, and function vs. design. Although a lining may look good when new, I don't think it very practical for a frontiersman.
Any lining of cloth or leather for that matter will eventually develop small holes in it where small items will tend to get lost between the lining and the bag. Seems to me to be an unneeded annoyance, that a practical frontiersman would likely avoid.

[whitebear]

I would think that about the second time something needed had to be worked back between the bag and lining to the hole in the lining that the lining would be ripped out and forgotten.

[Artificer]

I would think that about the second time something needed had to be worked back between the bag and lining to the hole in the lining that the lining would be ripped out and forgotten.

GREAT point!!  Yes, I can see a whole lot of people (including me) who would have done that!

Of course, if one had the pouch lined with the SAME material one used for patches, then one might have an "emergency ration" of patches by ripping the liner out after running out of other patch material.............  NO, I'm not trying to even suggest that, BTW.  I'm just kidding.
Gus

[Artificer]

Just speaking from my own experience, and function vs. design. Although a lining may look good when new, I don't think it very practical for a frontiersman.
Any lining of cloth or leather for that matter will eventually develop small holes in it where small items will tend to get lost between the lining and the bag. Seems to me to be an unneeded annoyance, that a practical frontiersman would likely avoid.

It would wind up being an annoyance AND it would cost more, which is another likely reason it wasn't done by many frontiers folk who couldn't afford the extra expense and/or labor time.

Gus

[gizamo]

A liner can help a thin leather bag hold its shape... just sayin'...