Author Topic: PA hunting bag?  (Read 6474 times)

Offline Carl Dumke

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
PA hunting bag?
« on: February 19, 2014, 03:48:00 AM »
Hello Everyone,
My wife bought me this antique hunting bag and horn for Valentines Day (thanks honey!) and I was wondering if anyone can give me some insight into it and maybe an age range.  The shop said it was a PA hunting bag.  I has seen quite a bit of use and has some original repairs. The horn straps are integral to the shoulder strap.  The button (finial) on the horn is a piece of jacked leather tacked to the plug.  There is a brass cylinder powder measure attached with linen cord on the strap and the other side has two slits, 1" apart that are perpendicular to the length of the strap.  Also, what is the best way to preserve the bag--it is just so cool.















Carl

Offline Shreckmeister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3808
  • GGGG Grandpa Schrecengost Gunsmith/Miller
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 04:42:07 AM »
I have an original PA bag and horn similar to that and I don't think there is anything you can put on it to
preserve it without ruining it.  Probably just keep it in a climate controlled area with light and that's all
you can do.  If somebody has more knowledge please share it.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline EricEwing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 591
    • https://www.ericewingmaker.com/
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 06:07:02 AM »
That is really nice, thank you for sharing that!

gizamo

  • Guest
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 10:51:07 AM »
Very nice bag...great architecture.  The Lady has a good eye... :)

Here is a link to conservation measures. It focuses on proper storage and environment.  There are sealants that can also be used. It also focuses on what is called Red Rot in leather.

http://www.conservation-wiki.com/wiki/Red_rot


Giz

Offline Artificer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 10:45:00 PM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket.  

Not sure how much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 09:27:10 PM by Artificer »

RoaringBull

  • Guest
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 12:20:46 AM »
Many many thanks for sharing you bag! Could we get some dimensions of the bag please?

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Oklahoma
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 12:36:27 AM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket. 

Not sure who much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus

Gus, those type of adjustment buckles were found on English belts from at least the Napoleonic Era.
Psalms 144

Offline Artificer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 12:41:26 AM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket. 

Not sure who much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus

Gus, those type of adjustment buckles were found on English belts from at least the Napoleonic Era.

Clark,
Good point.  However, it did not show up much in the U.S. prior to few decades later at least as far as my books on belts and buckles show.

Gus

Offline Artificer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 12:43:38 AM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket. 

Not sure who much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus

Gus, those type of adjustment buckles were found on English belts from at least the Napoleonic Era.

Clark,
Good point.  However, it did not show up much in the U.S. prior to few decades later at least as far as my books on belts and buckles show.  When it did seem to become more popular was with the organized and well funded local Militia Units a decade or two before the UnCivil War. 

Gus

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Oklahoma
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 12:56:10 AM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket. 

Not sure who much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus

Gus, those type of adjustment buckles were found on English belts from at least the Napoleonic Era.

Clark,
Good point.  However, it did not show up much in the U.S. prior to few decades later at least as far as my books on belts and buckles show.

Gus

Canada used standard pattern Infantry and Riflemans gear of the British. Standard line Infantry didn't seem to wear belts often in that era, but all Rifle regiments did. Including any that came over here between 1812-1815. A lot of them came over during our unpleasantness of the 1860s, but even still most extant examples not dug at a battlefield come out of Canada. That type of adjustment is quite old, I've even seen similar examples found on Roman belts.
Psalms 144

Offline Carl Dumke

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 06:21:38 AM »
Many many thanks for sharing you bag! Could we get some dimensions of the bag please?

The bag measures 7 2/8" wide and 8 3/8" from top to bottom.  The back and flap are one piece measuring 13" total with 6 2/8 " from the top to the bottom of the flap.  The strap is 1 3/16" wide and the horn is 11 1/5" along the curve.  I hope this helps!
Carl

RoaringBull

  • Guest
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 07:31:04 AM »
Many many thanks for sharing you bag! Could we get some dimensions of the bag please?

The bag measures 7 2/8" wide and 8 3/8" from top to bottom.  The back and flap are one piece measuring 13" total with 6 2/8 " from the top to the bottom of the flap.  The strap is 1 3/16" wide and the horn is 11 1/5" along the curve.  I hope this helps!

Yes sir. I appreciate it greatly.

Offline Artificer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 08:28:41 AM »
GREAT photos and thanks for sharing!  Love the little inside pocket. 

Not sure who much this means, but the oval buckle on the strap reminds me of the adjustment buckle on the sword belt for an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword.  I am not absolutely sure of this, but I don't think that style buckle was much earlier unless it was on Horse Tack I'm not familiar with.  Don't take that as "chiseled in stone," though.


Gus

Gus, those type of adjustment buckles were found on English belts from at least the Napoleonic Era.

Clark,
Good point.  However, it did not show up much in the U.S. prior to few decades later at least as far as my books on belts and buckles show.

Gus

Canada used standard pattern Infantry and Riflemans gear of the British. Standard line Infantry didn't seem to wear belts often in that era, but all Rifle regiments did. Including any that came over here between 1812-1815. A lot of them came over during our unpleasantness of the 1860s, but even still most extant examples not dug at a battlefield come out of Canada. That type of adjustment is quite old, I've even seen similar examples found on Roman belts.

Carl,

 I’ve been researching both the 60th and 95th Regiments as to their service in the War of 1812, to see how these adjustment buckles may have influenced Americans. 

I included the 60th as 7th Battalion was a “Regular” Green Coated Rifle Unit like the 95th Rifles, but came from Germany and most could not speak English.
(http://www.warof1812.ca/60th.htm)  Though they participated in the Penobscot Campaign in Maine, not one of their (Rifle) troops was listed in the British Casualties of  “1 enlisted man killed, 1 officer and 7 enlisted men wounded and 1 enlisted man missing.[1] Four of the casualties were from the 29th Regiment, two from the 62nd Regiment and 4 from the 98th Regiment.”  (Oh, other sources beside WIKI confirm these casualties.) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hampden

I thought MAYBE at least some Rifle Companies of either the 60th or more likely the 95th participated in the Maryland Invasion.  Actually there were no elements of either unit in that campaign, according to every account of British Forces I’ve been able to find.

The ONLY fighting the 95th lists in America in the War of 1812 was in New Orleans, were it is listed a Battalion of the Regiment was there. 

The 95th , 60th and other British Regimental Histories all confirm there were no other Green Coated Rifle Regulars in or from Canada or Britain during the War of 1812.

So the only place that these adjustment buckles came to light for Americans was the Battle of New Orleans.  I very much doubt that even if such buckles were taken from the dead or captured, it does not seem they could have influenced Americans very much outside those who were there.  Is it possible one of the Kentuckian’s or other Troops could have brought back such a buckle as a trophy of war?  Well, I suppose it might be, but again there is no evidence this type of adjustment buckle was used by U.S. Regulars or Militia for another couple or three decades later. 

Gus 

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2263
  • Oklahoma
Re: PA hunting bag?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 02:06:42 AM »
Gus, I am not saying that that bag is dated to the 1812 era. I think it is later than that, but that style buckle was in use by the Empire and her Commonwealth states from at least 1808 through WW1. Pennsylvania is a short boat ride from one of them. There are a lot of years there for a simple buckle to be re-utilized, and that type of buckle is also one of the easiest to be made. Simple loop and tongue.
Psalms 144