20 gauge wasp waist slug

[captpete]

I recently saw a mould for a 20 gauge slug that's roughly shaped like a wasp waist air gun pellet.  It even had a hollow base sort of like a minor ball... Has anyone ever used this?  If so, what results did you obtain?

-- Peter

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Peter,

The only "air gun wasp" design 20 gauge slug I've seen is usually configured to fit a two-piece plastic "casing", which covers the slug so it can be loaded into a 20 gauge shotgun shell.

When the slug and casing exit the shotgun's RIFLED barrel muzzle, the casing falls away like a two-stage rocket, and the smaller diameter slug (approx. 50 caliber) zips downrange to about 150+ yards.

If you go to:http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/mould-details-shotgun.php?entryID=84/
you will be looking at the mould you're thinking about, "wasp design". Note the orange stripe description: "Shotgun Bullet Mould: 20 Gauge Hollow Base - Sabot Slug (20ga Sabot) - #SC20. The Lyman design fits regular 20 gauge plastic wads.

Sabot slugs perform best only with rifled shotgun barrels.

I'd recommend staying with .600 round balls and .015-.018 pillow ticking.

Hope this helps,

Buck Buchanan
Field Rep-NC
NMLRA

[Daryl]

I do not know the 20 bore Lyman "Sabot" slugs' diameter, but the 12 bore 'sabot' slug is about .690" give or take a few thousandths.  This is roughly what a "Full Choked" barrel measures at the muzzle - 12 bore, of course.(40 points of choke from .730")
Carrying this train of thought, a 20 bore full choke with 40 points of choke would be .575"- that may or may not be the diameter of the Lyman 'sabot' 20 bore slug.

If you call Lyman's tech. department, they should be able to tell you what the diameter actually is.  Due to it's shape, with out a real grease groove, how would you properly lubricate it?  At a cost of $95.00, is it worth the experiment? BTW- filling the 'waste' with lube would take a LOT of lube.  If it did not sluff off evenly, the accuracy would be effected. The skirt is actually too thin to withstand anything but a squib load, if cast of pure lead. If cast of alloyed lead, it may not expand to seal and would only be useable in a 58 cal. rifle to start with, depending on size of the slug. -

It WILL be undersize for a 20 bore smooth bore and will probably not shoot will in one anyway - without the wad.  With a plastic wad to fill in the windage, the BP flame will melt the plastic wad and coat your bore with it.

I've seen reports saying the 12 bore sabot slug shoots reasonably well in smooth bored 12 gauge shotguns of cylinder bore - good enough for deer at that range.  I have not 'heard' about the 20 bore sabot slugs from Lyman.

[Levy]

Seems like I remember they were called Vandalee Slugs and had the two pieces of plastic over the outside.  I have a couple of them in 12 gauge.  James Levy

[Daryl]

James you are referring to a different slug.  The Lyman slugs are meant to be placed inside a normal 1-piece short base field wad - in 12 bore, the  WAA12R (red) wad normally used for most 1 1/4ounce field loads & is the preferred one for the Lyman "Sabot Slug". I do not know the wad suggested for the 20 bore slug.  When the wad with slug leaves the muzzle, the petals open and release the slug just as they do with a multiple shot load.

The slug you are thinking of, was sold publicly for a few years up here, then disappeared - or perhaps I  simply bought them at Kesselring's at Alger Wash & didn't get them up here at all?  Long time ago - 1974. Hasting's barrel company started making rifled replacement barrels for shotguns around when that 'split-wad' sabot slug came out.  It was available in pure lead, or a harder alloy of lighter weight for handloading as well.  They shot reasonably well for shooting 'soft' targets close in, but did not remain point on very well from non-rifled tubes, hitting 'slightly' sideways most of the time.  They did shoot well in rifled barrels.

They were sold by or with BRI on the boxes IIRC.

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Daryl is right about the earlier sabot slugs with the two-piece casing I was describing early in my post. BRI was the source of those slugs.

I still recommend a patched .600 round ball to conquer all.

Buck

[captpete]

Thanks Buck!  Sometimes I get wrapped around the axle and.forget about the KISS (keep it simple stupid) principal.....

-- Peter

[Dphariss]

If a round ball can be used its superior to a slug and a LOT easier to cast. The modern slug was designed to allow a "solid" projectile to be fired through a choked breechloader barrel without damage to the barrel. Other than that its utility is somewhat limited. The RB will also penetrate better I suspect.

Dan

[Daryl]

As Dan suggested, pure lead round balls and especially harder alloy round balls will out penetrate most slugs which are generally quite soft in alloy. The slugs are also usually lighter for their diameter than a typical round ball and due to hollow based design, lack the "density" of a round ball. Too, you lose diameter which is of importance on game as well.

In history, slugs did not overtake the round ball's use on dangerous game until the advent of the self contained cartridge. This was because a hardened slug could only be used in breech loading weapons to ensure adequate penetration.  The necessary hard slug could not be loaded at the muzzle. 

I know we are not normally shooting dangerous game - however the same principals apply. Too - in our round ball twist rifle barrels, round balls are obviously more stable. Stability after impact aids straight line penetration - where a barely stabilized slug (in say a 48" twist) is prone to deflection by bone and even muscle & ligament tissue in our larger ungulates like moose and elk.