Brass Trigger Guard S.O.S.

[BrushCountryAg03]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words...

Before the final fitting, where they both cracked and finally broke at the identical location, I did the usual and turned off all the lights so I could judge the proverbial "dull cherry red" before I quenched each one in water.  As you can see in the picture, all of my multiple soldering attempts using several combinations of solder & flux failed miserably.

What in the $#*! is going on???

[Acer Saccharum]

Some alloys won't anneal. I don't know what you have, but it might not be brass.

Your castings may be silicon bronze, which casts beautifully, but is hard as heck. It won't anneal, either. They are best bent cold, very carefully.

[Mark Elliott]

You will either need to get castings from a known good supplier of yellow brass castings or make your own.  Personally,  I don't trust any investment castings of "brass".   Regardless of what the founder says,  I don't think they really use actual brass.

[BrushCountryAg03]

I couldn't agree with you both more.  Both of these softened up pretty good after being annealed but not enough to conform to the handle.  They were both came extremely rigid out of the box and just didn't have the feel of good 'ol soft yellow brass.  No telling what their chemical composition is...

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

You have your hands full trying to fix those two guards.  Soft solder is inappropriate.  They will need to be silver soldered with high temperature rod.  And even then they may not be at the right angle for your (pistol?)s.  Too bad...you appear to have some time already invested.

[gunmaker]

Reeves Goehring has REALLY soft brass castings--and plenty of 'em.....

[BrushCountryAg03]

You have your hands full trying to fix those two guards.  Soft solder is inappropriate.  They will need to be silver soldered with high temperature rod.  And even then they may not be at the right angle for your (pistol?)s.  Too bad...you appear to have some time already invested.

Sir, now that you mentioned using, "high temperature rod" it begs the question:

Could they be "fusion-welded" using just my TIG torch or could they brazed together using some type of filler rod like Silicon Bronze or the like using straight Argon shielding gas?

[Nordnecker]

This, and the tutorial on making a pistol buttplate, makes me want to return my TG and BP castings and make my own, as I'm not really thrilled about either of them. And I sure am looking forward to the Baltimore show so I can see Reaves Goehring's castings. Ii'll be like finding the Holy Grail.

[Robby]

SSS, I have cut and re-sectioned many trigger guard's using an oxy-acetylene torch and a brazing rod that matched the color of the brass. It was with nice soft brass, and it can be tricky, but even after aging in, you cannot see the brazed joints. I can't tell from the picture if your castings are leaning more towards the a 'bronze', but at this point I would try and fuse them with brazing rod. Best of luck!!!!
Robby

[Dphariss]

It appears to be one of the bronzes and I doubt it will ever bend.
Don't know where these bronze parts come from but they are a real PITA.

Dan

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Sorry, I don't know how to answer your question except to say, I have no experience with TIG.  With red heat, good flux, and high temperature silver solder, you can join all brass-like metals that have been cast into furniture.  If you cannot re-joint it that way, it's toast.  Start over.

[mattdog]

I have fusion welded brass parts back together with TIG.  It works, and depending on circumstances can work very well.  The key word is BRASS.  We cast our parts from best yellow brass only.  There are too many advantages to it not to.  I haven't had any luck TIG welding with brass-like substances.  If it isn't real yellow brass then you are limited to silver solder.

Brazing brass?  Arrrgh!  Never have been able to do it.  By the time everything is up to temp. it all melts down into a blob dripping on the floor.  The parts melt at the same temp as the filler rod.  What gives?   

[rich pierce]

Might solder a strap of sheet brass on the side that will be the inside. File that surface flat, tin both surfaces, use black wire to hold it together and hit it with the torch.  The seam will be mostly inletted into the wood.

[Robby]

Mattdog, I use a smallish brazing tip, not sure of the number, get one small area to critical mass and with the rod right on it, shifting the torch back and forth and all the while moving along the joint, and don't be shy about using up the rod, it files easy. Main thing is to keep moving. It is nothing like methods used in soldering.
Robby

[kaintuck]

It appears to be one of the bronzes and I doubt it will ever bend.
Don't know where these bronze parts come from but they are a real PITA.

Dan

I second that!
Wax cast brass for me please!..chambers or Dave keck have good stuff!

[KLMoors]

I've had good luck bending the non-brass "brass" furniture I've run across by bending it hot.  I get it to about the same red I would use for annealing and then bend it real slow, while keeping some heat on it.

I broke two or three a couple of years ago using the normal anneal and cool method, and threw them in a drawer. I took them back out to experiment with and discovered the "bend it hot" approach seemed to work with this stuff.

By the way, as Acer said, some of this stuff is extremely hard. And, it is a bear to engrave.

 I still have a few to use up and then I am going to have to figure out how to get what I like from Reeves.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

I had the same thing happen to me on this pistol trigger guard.  I got the guard from e-bay for a really good price, heated it to dull red, cooled, bent it to fit the grip curve - it broke at the already existing screw hole.  Rats!!  I tried without success to silver solder repair.  I did the backing piece thing with a thin piece of brass inside the whole length of the rear extension, soft soldered.  mechanically it worked well, but you can see the crack joint.  Next time I will try the "bend it hot" approach, I hope it works better because I still have several of the same trigger guards in the junk box.

Jim

[BrushCountryAg03]

I've had good luck bending the non-brass "brass" furniture I've run across by bending it hot.  I get it to about the same red I would use for annealing and then bend it real slow, while keeping some heat on it.

I broke two or three a couple of years ago using the normal anneal and cool method, and threw them in a drawer. I took them back out to experiment with and discovered the "bend it hot" approach seemed to work with this stuff.

By the way, as Acer said, some of this stuff is extremely hard. And, it is a bear to engrave.

 I still have a few to use up and then I am going to have to figure out how to get what I like from Reeves.

Sir, I believe you're absolutely right about bending this bronze-like brass while it's hot.

[BrushCountryAg03]

And I'll say this about my experience with brass-mounted
Rifles, Muskets, & Pistols:

I'm just about to the point of strictly using STEEL from here on out...It's stronger and so much easier to FIX (especially if you have access to a TIG machine).

[Mark Elliott]

If you are not particular about the style,  Reeves Goehring sells at least one guard and butt cap for a pistol.   I have one in my stock if Reeves doesn't.   I am sure it is yellow brass.  I am not going to using it.  I decided to make the pistol with silver mounts I make from sheet.    If you want photos,  I will post them.