Author Topic: Leather Worker and Horner  (Read 3843 times)

gizamo

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Leather Worker and Horner
« on: April 12, 2014, 01:33:38 AM »
Just a curiosity question....

But it seems that many of our best Horners and Leather Workers seem to cross over to both sides....

How many of you produce both bags and horns.....and why?

For me, it's come down to the need for both horn and bag to somehow compliment one another.  Perhaps a bit of needing them to meld into one vision.  Dunno... maybe its ego. ;)

Thoughts from those that practice both Trades?

Giz
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 01:34:34 AM by gizamo »

Offline Artificer

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 04:30:54 AM »
Giz,

I'm not sure there are many people who think of themselves as extensively following both trades of the Horner and Leathersmith, though I could be mistaken.  I think perhaps some Horners make some pouches and some Leathersmiths make some horns.  If one is really going to get into working either "trade," it often requires spending a lot of time on making tools or buying them for either trade, even when it is a serious hobby. 

I got into Amateur Leatherworking because either some items were not available or I wanted to do something "custom" to my or other's desires.  I made a few horns for myself and friends, but I am no Horner by any means.  I don't consider myself a professional leather worker, by any means, either.

My first leather shooting pouch was a horrible failure as it was made of too soft of leather and was not authentically made, though it looked "OK."  My second pouch was not extremely professional, but very nicely done as I had learned a lot since making the first and took some time to plan it.   I set it up so I could use it to shoot either Flint Rifle or Northwest Trade Gun by switching some accessories.  Could not afford two pouches at the time even though I made them myself. 

My first and really only complete leather "Accoutrements en Suite" were those I made for myself when I switched to doing an UnCivil War Officer's Impression.  I wanted something fancier that an Officer would have carried, so I made the leather goods and used Original metal parts.  I found a later 19th or early 20th century M1850 blade that was a "REAL" combat blade for sale, so I bought that and gathered original parts for the Grip and Scabbard and assembled my own sword and scabbard.  For some time in the early 80's, I was one of the few, if not only Confederate Officer carrying a real M1850 style sword in reenactments around Virginia.  Then a few years later, they started making repros, but not the same quality of blade and other parts as an original or the one I had assembled using original parts.   

When I got into doing a Private Soldier in the Black Watch in the late 90's, I made most of my own leather goods (except the Belly Box) both to make better quality goods than generally could be found from the Sutlers and in a couple cases to make them more historically accurate.  Never made a Sporran before, but a Private Soldier's Sporran was not that difficult. 

Most of the leather goods I have made over the years for sale or trade were military goods for Rev War, War of 1812 and the UnCivil War - when those items had not been correctly repro'd or not made except on a custom basis. 

Been making plans to make an 18th century "Accoutrements en Suite" and got inspired by James Rogers' Superb set he recently posted.  My set won't be quite as fancy as that, though.  Grin.

Hope I haven't wasted your time, Giz, but since no one else answered yet, I thought this might get the discussion going.
Gus


gizamo

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 12:32:55 PM »

Gus,

Not wasting my time... :)

You gave an excellent set of reasons for making your and using your own gear. The primary one being that you could make something that better suited your needs.

Bags and horns compliment one another. I find it easier to get a 19th century set assembled because of all the surviving examples.  18th century...is very difficult, but can be done.  I always look very carefully at the TC Albert, Jeff Bibb, Mark Elliot and others who strive to make up these sets . Often times the make additional accoutrements that add to the overall impression.  

Giz
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 12:35:30 PM by gizamo »

Offline The Original Griz

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 01:25:32 PM »
My leather working skills stink big time, that's why I don't  ;D
“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
Thomas Jefferson
www.timsannerpowderhorns.com

Offline Curt Lyles

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 01:49:36 PM »
  Giz    I got in to leather work by reasons of not wantin to waste or throw away good hides ,(deer squirrel, ground hog) that's what I like to use the most,bark tanned of course. At first I thought I wood just sell the finished leather but after i got started I was hooked on it as I really like some thing a little different . I know my style wont meet todays standards of a quality harness maker but that's fine with me. I hate to part with them when they are done anyway.  All my work is done with linen thread and hand stitched.

    I sure like a nice horn but I use mostly original horns for huntin or shootin purposes,iv made a few but I keep those hidden for good reasons. There are some mity good horn and leather workers out there today and it is neat seein  all the good stuff bein made.I hope  to learn the horn work someday but  ive got enough other things goin on right to keep me busy. Curt  

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 03:48:25 PM »
I usually prefer to do both myself. For me, its the best way to get everything
just the way I imagine it...especially on concept or themed pieces.

But I also enjoy planning and making sets with other artists sometimes, especially
for special projects or events.
tca  
  
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 03:50:44 PM by T.C.Albert »
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omark

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 06:22:28 PM »
im certainly not a good horner or leatherworker, but i make my own for a couple of reasons;
#1    for economy, of course.
#2    it gives me a certain sense of satisfaction when i can say "I made it myself", and someone else says "Yes, thats obvious."    lol     mark

ed1215

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 06:44:54 PM »
For me I like making horns and all kind of things out of it , but I got into making bags and such when I couldn`t be in the shop all the time so its give me something to work on

Offline Habu

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Re: Leather Worker and Horner
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2014, 09:55:30 PM »
I certainly wouldn't number myself among the "best" hornmakers and leather workers (I tend to describe myself as "borderline half-competent"), but I do both.    My approach is to try to use period materials and techniques to make equipment that could have been used in the period, rather than to try to make them compliment each other, or "meld into one vision." 

My first bag was something knocked together out of the leg of an old pair of Levis, paired with my first horn, made from a steer horn I found while out roaming the pastures.  Both worked fine when shooting targets, but I wanted better so copied the gear I saw others using.  That worked fine on the firing line too, but my first trip hunting the river bottoms was an eye-opener.  Stuff caught on the brush, fell out of the bag or was torn off the strap,  powder was lost filling the measure from a too-large spout hole, and the remaining powder got wet when the river was deeper than expected.

I started studying originals, then began focusing on stuff that had decent provenance--actual documentation, rather than "I found this in an old barn" or "I saw one like it in Grant's book"--and then got even further into it by focusing almost completely on stuff that had been used west of the Mississippi.  That's meant a lot of miles, a lot of poking around in small-town museums, and meeting a lot of folks who have one or two or a wall of horns, or just their great-grandpa's hunting bag hanging on the wall with his shotgun.   I've got notes on almost every one of the thousands of original horns I've examined in-hand since 1981, the 30-40 bags I could get some reasonably-firm provenance on, and a few hundred others.