Author Topic: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative  (Read 8588 times)

Offline frogwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1044
Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« on: April 15, 2014, 04:32:31 PM »
I have contacted Dunlap about a good quality sugar maple stock blank.  They have reponded that they do not have the quality of wood I want in Sugar Maple, but can supply it in Red Maple.  Should I go for Red Maple, or go with black walnut? Is there another alternative.   I understand walnut  falls between the two maples in hardness and strength.
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Offline A.Merrill

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 04:50:13 PM »
    Red maple. Stay away from silver maple it's to soft and it won't sand out very smooth, wants to stay fussy.    Good luck.   AL
Alan K. Merrill

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5123
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 04:56:14 PM »
What are you looking for?  I will have to check, but I think I've got 1 or 2 super pieces left.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline A.Merrill

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 04:59:01 PM »
    Or, curly Ash. I've never used it but seen some a few years ago at Freddie Harrison's. Looked really nice but it was really heavy compared to maple......   AL
Alan K. Merrill

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19538
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 05:04:55 PM »
Black walnut blanks often have figure in the buttstock but little in the fore stock. 
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19487
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 05:21:33 PM »
I would go with the Red Maple, you can find some of it that's as hard as most sugar maple. Unless you are carving it you don't need real hard maple. If I remember right you are are building a TN style rifle, many of them were black walnut.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline smart dog

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7018
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 05:26:22 PM »
Hi,
Dunlap is out of sugar maple but have you tried other wood suppliers?  I wouldn't worry much about red maple versus sugar.  I am sure Dunlap will select a dense red maple blank for you.  Just choose maple or walnut depending on your taste.

dave
"The main accomplishment of modern economics is to make astrology look good."

Offline Kevin Houlihan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 05:37:23 PM »
I've had very good experiences with Michael Barton at Tiger Hunt.  http://www.gunstockwood.com/index.html
Kevin

kaintuck

  • Guest
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 09:24:55 PM »
walnut is nice, but will have to be 'filled'...it has large pore. red maple #5 or above will have nice tiger stripes ;D
cherry can be stained darker....and it to will have nice grain sometimes~ clean up after yourself when working in cherry or walnut....shavings are kinda bad on animals and the sinuses........ :P

galamb

  • Guest
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 10:29:02 PM »
Red Maple is only "soft" if you have worked with Sugar Maple - otherwise it's "plenty hard".

Also, figured/curly occurs in about 10% of Red and only 1% of Sugar, so figured Red Maple is less expensive/more readily available.

I don't know of anyone who can tell one from the other simply by looking at a finished product and many specialty wood places can't tell the difference either unless the wood is looked at under a microscope.

For all those reasons, Red Maple is my "first choice" if I want a maple stock.

Offline flehto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3335
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2014, 12:32:00 AM »
The prsent build is the 3rd red maple blank from Dunlaps....all were very hard as per assurances from Wayne Dunlap. Wanted to buy {3} #7s  and Wayne told me the #5s and #4s had a fair amount of curl and were very hard....so, in addition to these lower grades, I bought one #7. All 3 carvd well and had no problems at all w/ the wood. The price for all 3 was reasonable w/ a sizeable discount.  Don't think I'll be buying blanks from any other supplier.....Fred

Offline David R. Pennington

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2928
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 04:03:38 AM »
I have a stack of red maple planks I sawed a while back. They will have been stacked 3 years this fall. I will put a couple planks in the attic and let them dry some more probably, then band saw blanks and bring them in the house a while. Looks like a lot of nice curl. The way the tree grew I got two logs with bent grain pattern that should work perfect for stock blanks with grain flowing naturally into wrist.
The commercial loggers passed this tree up, probably because it was crooked. I noticed the tree while hunting on my cousin's farm. We cut it off high and then cut the but log off the stump so it wouldn't split. I dug around the stump as much as I could and we cut as much as we could with chain saw and I had to cut the rest with 6 1/2 foot crosscut saw with one handle off.  My sawyer said it was a little tricky to saw but he did a good job.
I've got a pile of cherry inch boards on top of the maple I need to use up so I can get to it. If I had a place to store it I'd go ahead and make me a cherry casket.
VITA BREVIS- ARS LONGA

Offline dogcreek

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2014, 09:42:02 PM »
As much as I love black walnut for modern guns, I would go with some choice red maple, especially if you intend to do any carving. Good red maple is hard, tough, and can be very beautiful.

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2014, 10:00:52 PM »
Nathan at Harrison Sawmill ((731) 414-9757) has good hard maple blanks.   I just bought two.    Be prepared to pay up to $700 for the best.  The two that I bought were around $500 ea.  Harrison has always been my go to guy for the best blanks.  I only buy #4s from Dunlap for the average stock blank.   I do go up and pick through the pile.    I am finishing a gun now with a #4 hard that would be a $500 or better blank from Harrison.  It is technically quarter sawn (rings less than 45 degrees to horizontal) with the grain running well through the wrist, very good figure and very dense.    I can generally get a pretty decent piece of wood for $80 from Dunlap, but I have to drive three hours up and five hours back and spend an hour picking through the stack of blanks.     I figure it costs me around $200-$250 for that $80 piece of wood, but that is still a bargain if I get a good one or two.   If I have the money,  I buy three as you get a discount with three.    That reduces the cost all around. 

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19487
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2014, 12:16:38 AM »
Quote
but I have to drive three hours up and five hours back and spend an hour picking through the stack of blanks.
My heavens Mark, I just have to ask what time of day do you drive up there! I drive up there is 2 hrs even in morning traffic. Wayne is good about picking out the type of wood/blank that you ask for. Also he will bring it to a show (Baltimore, CLA most of the VA shows and maybe others) for you to look at with no strings attached on buying it after you see it. He also brings a good selection of blanks to these shows. Wayne's a good man to deal with.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline frogwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1044
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2014, 02:10:20 AM »
Thanks to all for the great information, and thanks to those who offered me blanks they have in their shops.  Those offered blanks were universally better than what I need, and should go to really good builders.  I have been building since the mid '60s, but am and always have been a hobby builder.  Wayne has found what he describes as a good No. 6 hard red maple blank with good grain through the wrist and also in the forearm.  (It sounds like it is quarter sawn.)  I am sure it will be the best I have laid a rasp to.
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2014, 06:44:59 PM »
Quote
but I have to drive three hours up and five hours back and spend an hour picking through the stack of blanks.
My heavens Mark, I just have to ask what time of day do you drive up there! I drive up there is 2 hrs even in morning traffic. Wayne is good about picking out the type of wood/blank that you ask for. Also he will bring it to a show (Baltimore, CLA most of the VA shows and maybe others) for you to look at with no strings attached on buying it after you see it. He also brings a good selection of blanks to these shows. Wayne's a good man to deal with.
Dennis


Dennis,

Maybe it is just my bad luck, but the traffic is usually crawling on 95 south by the time I am ready to leave Dunlaps around 12:30-1:00PM.   I usually leave home around 9AM and get to Dunlaps around noon.   It was a 2 hour trip at one time, but that was a long time ago.    I go through Manassas now and from 95 to Dunlap's isn't bad.   If you were to take the belt way,  it would take you even longer.   It has taken me 30 minutes just to go from the exit off 495 to the intersection where you turn into the industrial park where Dunlaps is located.   I believe that is Leesburg Pike.    I guess if I left home at 6AM,  it might make a difference, but I am not going to get up that early just to go get wood. 

Mark

Offline Jim Kibler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4474
    • Personal Website
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2014, 07:12:43 PM »
Some thoughts about wood and suppliers...  I can't say this with absolute certainty, but I believe air dried wood carves better than kiln dried stuff.  The process used by Freddie Harrison and now his son-in-law is a very gentle drying process more akin to air drying than a standard kiln drying process.  I've carved many blanks from Dunlaps.  Some have been okay, others have been down right miserable.  I prefer air dried wood, but will probably use kiln dried stuff now and then. 

The wood that was cut by Freddie Harrison is some of the best that can be found.  In any case it's preferable to sort through the wood yourself, if possible, in order to find exactly what you want.  Prices of Freddie's wood have gone up, but it's the best, so they can get away with it.  There's really no competitive supplier that offers what they do.

Red maple can carve okay.  A really soft piece, probably wouldn't be a good choice, though.  When you gain more experience and skill, the differences between wood and how it works will be more obvious. 

Curl can be great, but it's not required to make a good looking gun.  I suggest those starting out or acquiring skills, to consider plainer wood.  It will work easier and cost less.

Jim

Offline T*O*F

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5123
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2014, 07:28:28 PM »
Quote
thanks to those who offered me blanks they have in their shops.  Those offered blanks were universally better than what I need,
I guess that I inferred from your post that you wanted a premium piece of wood.  I wish you had said otherwise, as I had some that were lesser grades.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline frogwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1044
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2014, 04:55:38 AM »
Sorry about the confusion.  Communication is the most difficult task we humans attempt.
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.

Bible Totin Gun Slinger

  • Guest
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2014, 04:15:26 PM »
I made a knife with Rose Wood, love it, Walnut was all I could find when I built my Kentucky Peestola.
I say its worth it to wait for the right wood.

Offline frogwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1044
Re: Sugar maple hard to find, what alternative
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2014, 11:48:50 PM »
Stock blank arrived today.  It is plain sawn and not quarter sawn, but grain is very good, and perfect in wrist area, with tight stripe the full length.  The blank is good and straight and looks good.  I am not knowledgeable enough to judge density, but I will trust Dunlap.  Now we are waiting on Rice.
Quality, schedule, price; Pick any two.