What to do with a horn?

[Shreckmeister]

I purchased a very thin, amber/tan horn about 13 inches outside to make a powder horn along
with some others.  There is no white on it.  My dilemma is that the horn is so thin all the way to
the tip, that I'm not sure very much forming of the tip can be done.  Can somebody suggest a
style where there is little work done to the tip that will make a nice powder horn?  I won't be able
to scrape much on this one.  You can already see through most of the body.  I don't know how to do
the applied tip style which limits me even more.

[Tim Crosby]

 You could use a tip off of another horn, just cut it so there is some hollow left in it form the body, work it down and press the body up inside. Another idea; just tapper the horn out and put a staple in it. A separate ring pressed on to hold the strap would also work.
 You don't have a Lathe?

    Tim C.

[skillman]

Sounds like a great candidate for a banded horn with an applied tip.

Steve

[Shreckmeister]

I have a lathe but how do you turn another tip down without wasting that horn?  Maybe pressing another
ring of horn on it would be the solution.  Not sure how the staples are attached, just push through and bend
the inside over?  It's a nice horn and I hate to not use it.

[Top Jaw]

Shreckmeister

If you want to file in a ring, shove some small Christmas lights up into the very tip to light it up.  There is probably more there to work with than you think.  All you need is about 3/16 (or maybe a heavy 1/8) of an inch of step down to get a usable strap ring. 

Leave the tip as long as you can past the hollow cavity (at least about 1 1/2 inches - or more if possible), and go about a half inch back into the hollow area for the ring.  This will usually work out on most thin horns.  I have done this to a few and still had enough meat for a workable ring and tip.  The sound of your file on the horn and the continued use of the lights will usually help you avoid catastrophy when you are flirting with disaster on a thin one!!  Check it out with the lights first and see what you think.       

[Tim Crosby]

I have a lathe but how do you turn another tip down without wasting that horn?  Maybe pressing another
ring of horn on it would be the solution.  Not sure how the staples are attached, just push through and bend
the inside over?  It's a nice horn and I hate to not use it.

  I am not sure I understand your question, see if this answers it. You will have to sacrifice another horn for the tip or just by a horn tip. A one piece antler tip would also work.
 Do you have Scott's book on making Banded horns? If not pick up a copy it will take you horn making to another level.
 Take a look at this on making a staple.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=18938.0


     Tim C.

[The Original Griz]

Good grief, ifn ya need some material for a tip, I think I know where there is a box of them.... My shop..... The way it sounds, I think it is screaming for an applied tip put on it, if ya need help, there is always my shop if ya feel like a road trip.
I just bought a nice horn from Roland that sounds just like the one you are describing and he did no engraving, just a screw tip and it really turned out nice, that's why I bought it:)

[Shreckmeister]

Well I think I'm going to delve into the world of applied tip and try antler since I have
them all over the place.  That said, should the lathe be running fast or slow on antler.
I'm guessing fast.  Should I rasp it on the lathe to round before I start with the lathe
tools?  Griz, I'd sure like to come over and pester you with questions while you work one
day.  I'll bring the cigars.

[davec2]

This is from an old post of mine from 3 years ago.  Same problem and I didn't have another horn to sacrifice, so I made the applied tip out of ebony.....

I had a horn that was too thin to do any carving and too bland in color to be of much interest.  However, I kept it around for quite some time trying to come up with an idea of what to do with it.  I ended up scraping it thin enough to see through, just to see what it looked like and then decided that the bland color might look good with a very dark wood screw tip and base plug.  I turned the base plug, screw tip, and stopper out of ebony and decorated them with cast sterling silver stars.  The base plug is made with a threaded cascabel for easy filling and is sealed with a leather gasket. The screw tip has a thin brass liner that has a tapered pour hole.  The stopper is tapered to fit.  Silver bands and the maker’s mark were added to decorate the body of the horn.  The strap swivels are also of sterling silver except for the heat blued steel screws.  The base plug is held in place with citrus thorns and the horn is 14 inches around the outside of the curve, including the base and screw tip.

[Tim Crosby]

Well I think I'm going to delve into the world of applied tip and try antler since I have
them all over the place.  That said, should the lathe be running fast or slow on antler.
I'm guessing fast.  Should I rasp it on the lathe to round before I start with the lathe
tools?  Griz, I'd sure like to come over and pester you with questions while you work one
day.  I'll bring the cigars.

   I turn everything to do with horns, horn tips, antler, Pewter, wood at about 600 RPMs. Are you going to drill it and put it on a mandrel or work it between centers? For me the mandrel is the easiest. I have used a rasp to take off the rough edges while it is turning. Try and find a pretty solid piece so you don't have problems with the pith. Will it be a two piece or a single piece?

   Tim C.

 

[Shreckmeister]

Dave,  That horn could be it's twin.  Your's turned out VERY nice.  Tim,  I've not used a mandrel
on the lathe before so it will have to be on centers.  I would prefer one piece if possible.  This will
be completely experimental.  I wondered about the pith issue.  Is that what creates the need for
more than one piece because you have to use 2 different sizes to graduate the tip down in diameter?
I just picked up a good compass and plan to do my first compass work on it.  Going with a cherry
carved plug.

[Tim Crosby]

Dave,  That horn could be it's twin.  Your's turned out VERY nice.  Tim,  I've not used a mandrel
on the lathe before so it will have to be on centers.  I would prefer one piece if possible.  This will
be completely experimental.  I wondered about the pith issue.  Is that what creates the need for
more than one piece because you have to use 2 different sizes to graduate the tip down in diameter?
I just picked up a good compass and plan to do my first compass work on it.  Going with a cherry
carved plug.

 What it is is a Pen makers mandrel, Woodcrafters carries them. A four jawed chuck would also be helpful for tapering the inside to fit the horn. You are right about the two piece, as I see them. The smaller tines are usually solid and make the better actual tip portion, then the larger pieces can be used for the collar part.
  To bad your not closer we're only talking about a half hours work at most. Take a look at some of the Tutorials I posted on horn making, one may help.

    Tim C.

 

[Shreckmeister]

Tim,  How do you join the two pieces of antler?  The Pen Makers mandrel is only $14.99 on
Woodcrafters, but not sure if I need a special chuck to hold it?  Honestly I think I could make one out
of all thread.  I think I would have to buy a chuck like on a drill for the lathe.

[The Original Griz]

If your asking this Tim. I use a little glue and wooden pins (round toothpicks) if you meant the other Tim, sorry for speaking out of turn...
Your bringing cigars, heck yeah, anytime:)

[Carl Dumke]

Tim,  How do you join the two pieces of antler?  The Pen Makers mandrel is only $14.99 on
Woodcrafters, but not sure if I need a special chuck to hold it?  Honestly I think I could make one out
of all thread.  I think I would have to buy a chuck like on a drill for the lathe.

The pen mandrel has a taper and will fit into the head stock of your lathe.  The key is to us a 60 degree, live center in your tailstock--looks like a cone that is attached to a tapered end.  Put the mandrel into the headstock and slide the live center (already in the tailstock) so the tip fits in the indentation on the end of the mandrel.   It will help to support the mandrel while it is turning.  If you don't, there is a tendency for the end of the mandrel to wobble and your turning will not be true--even a little wobble can throw off the turning.  My suggestion is to get the adjustable mandrel Woodcrafters sells--will save a lot of headache.   

[Carl Dumke]

BTW--threaded rod has a tendency to flex, thawing the turning off center.  You can also use a tap and die to thread each piece and turn, but I agree with TC--use a mandrel. 

[Shreckmeister]

Thanks for that Carl.

[Tim Crosby]

Tim,  How do you join the two pieces of antler?  The Pen Makers mandrel is only $14.99 on
Woodcrafters, but not sure if I need a special chuck to hold it?  Honestly I think I could make one out
of all thread.  I think I would have to buy a chuck like on a drill for the lathe.

  I use three pins, see if this helps:

   http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11613.msg110443#msg110443

   Tim C.

 

[Shreckmeister]

Well the applied tip is going to be postponed until I get a Pen Mandrel.  In the meantime, I had the urge to
do something with this horn.  I turned a cherry plug and put a coin silver moon in it.  First ever inlet did not
go as well as planned, but I learned a few secrets.  Time to scrim and color.

[skillman]

Hard to tell from the one picture but from what I see, I sure would not be embarrassed.

Steve

[J Henry]

 If the inlay isn't to sloppy,try soaking the area around the coin in alcohol to swell the wood.I use alcohol because it evaporates quicker than water,so you can go back to work on the wood quicker,same to raise hair on wood for smoothing a finish>> For round inlays I use a Fostner bit, makes a nice flat bottom and a round hole>>

[Shreckmeister]

Well I originally wanted to do a geometric horn, but decided on finally doing the Shreckengost
migration horn.  Kind of a map of their migration from Wm Penn's Spread Eagle Manor along Mahantago Creek (Indian for place of great hunting) in Dauphin County in 1804 across the Shamokin Trail to Kittanning.

[The Original Griz]

looks good, are ya gonna dye it or let it natural? Well I guess that takes care of the shop and cigars day:(

[Shreckmeister]

Griz,  Think I'll leave it alone.  Shop and cigars day is still on.  Plenty of other horns to work on.