Author Topic: Reinstalling BreechPlug  (Read 3301 times)

dannylj

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Reinstalling BreechPlug
« on: February 03, 2009, 08:02:01 AM »
I have a 15/16 - 36" GM .50 barrel I need to cut off about 2 inches at the breech and reinstall plug. The barrel is already drilled and tapped for a flint liner and I need to convert it to a percussion hooked breech plug. I have the plug (5/8 X 18) and tap. What size drill bit should be used and can I use an electric drill as my small drill press can not be used. After tapping can I grind the tap down to a bottom tap to finish. I have never drilled and tapped anything of that size. This is to rebarrel an old TC Hawken someone gave me and to use a barrel I already had.  Thanks  Danny

Offline Dale Halterman

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Re: Reinstalling BreechPlug
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 04:35:39 PM »
OK, I cut off and re-threaded a GM barrel a few years ago so I am sorta qualified to answer this.

Not sure on the drill size offhand, but I have the tables to look it up in the shop. I'll check and get back to you on that.

Don't think I would try the hand drill. You say your drill press cannot be used. Is this because it is a table model and won't accommodate the length of the barrel? If that is the problem, can you rotate the head on the column 180 degrees so it clears the base? Then you will have to find a way to hold the barrel while you drill it. Don't try to hold it by hand, obviously.

I used a ground down tap to bottom, so that can be done. You don't have to grind the end off flat, just grind down the teeth so the end fits inside the bore without interference.

A few other thoughts. Does the tang on your new breech file the inlet for the original tang, or will you have to inlet more wood? I hope and trust that you have verified that the position of the nipple in the new breech will be the same as the original so the hammer strikes it properly. There shouldn't be any problem attaching the rib and thimbles to the new barrel, but I hope you are going to replace the sights. That original rear sight is butt ugly.

Dale H

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Reinstalling BreechPlug
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 07:11:24 PM »
I have a 15/16 - 36" GM .50 barrel I need to cut off about 2 inches at the breech and reinstall plug. The barrel is already drilled and tapped for a flint liner and I need to convert it to a percussion hooked breech plug. I have the plug (5/8 X 18) and tap. What size drill bit should be used and can I use an electric drill as my small drill press can not be used. After tapping can I grind the tap down to a bottom tap to finish. I have never drilled and tapped anything of that size. This is to rebarrel an old TC Hawken someone gave me and to use a barrel I already had.  Thanks  Danny


A twist drill would be my second choice here. I would consider buying a 37/64 or 9/16 reamer  and ream the existing hole deeper before cutting the barrel. This will be easier than trying to drill or ream with a hand held drill after cutting the barrel off.
Just do not drill/ream too deep. Length of the thread depth plus 1/32 is good.
Tap drill for 5/8 -18 is 37/64s (.578"). But the 9/16 (.562") will work OK for you and give better thread depth. If you know someone with a lathe it would be better to have it drilled in the lathe with the bore centered before drilling.
in  any case I would drill it to just past full depth of the plug.

You want the plug to run right to the end of the bore to avoid fouling traps. This is mostly an inconvenience with BP though it can increase corrosion. If its shot with some "replica" powders, however, it can be very serious and can greatly reduce the service life of the barrel and breech.

You need to tap the hole with a taper tap then grind it to remove the taper somewhat then tap again then grind even shorter and tap again to get the threads full depth as near as possible to the depth of the plug. It needs to be tapped right to the end of the bore, within 1 thread anyway. BUT the tap can damage the end of the drilled hole and create a fouling trap. So try to keep this area as drilled.
When fitting the end of the plug should seat against this cone or flat to seal. It might be necessary to file the front thread back 1/2 to 3/4 turn to get the plug to the end of the hole.
If you drill slightly deeper than the plugs threads you can then remove material from the breech of the barrel and the front thread of the plug to get the threaded portion seated properly as the body of the breech seats against the breech end. Further filling of all contact points will allow the plug to match the flats. I "paint" the contact areas with blue magic marker to find contact points to be removed.

On gaps, unprotected threads etc.

Fouling/oil traps are mostly just a PITA with blackpowder. However, with powders made with potassium perchlorate "fouling traps" are far more serious. This stuff is aggressively corrosive. While BP fouling is largely inert  when cutoff from moisture potassium perchlorate is always bad and will continue to eat barrels and breeches under an oil film.
It will produce "crawdad" holes as it burrows into the steel. A friend found this years ago in MLs that had the breeches pulled after long use with this stuff. One was close to "exiting".

This was re-enforced just a few days ago when a European shooter on another ML site reported that the German proof house had told him that these powders were "bad" and this (the deep individual pits) was one result of using perchlorate powders.

I have been taken to task by people on this site who should know better for insisting on fouling tight threads whenever possible. Usually because breeching in this manner costs too much/takes too long and they don't want to bother. But there is a VALID reason for keeping powder fouling out of the crevices and gaps produced by quick, loose tolerance breeching. It is doubly important when the firearm may be used with propellants that produce highly corrosive residue that, all claims to the contrary not withstanding, is difficult to adequately remove. Leaving fouling traps in the form of poorly fitted breeches simply makes it impossible.

The comments on the corrosive propertys of the fouling are based on MY personal experiences, experiments and observations of effects the use of perchlorate powders while working for a major manufacturer of 19th century single shots as gunsmith, gunstocker and all around "tech guy". Add this to the research conducted by a friend who posts here now and again and I can assure you this not "blackpowder elitism" at work. It based on sound, irrefutable, science. The results can be and are, repeated all the time and are readily observable by anyone paying attention.

"But lots of old guns have breeches simply threaded into the bore".
Yes, but:
1. The powder they were using was not a potassium perchlorate based powder.
2. In many cases the tap that made the threads was the same one that made the screw plate or the screw plate made the tap.

Tighter thread fits and relatively non-corrosive fouling make this an apples and oranges comparison when compared to the modern "thread tolerance" found in today's barrels/breeches/taps/dies and powders containing potassium perchlorate.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

dannylj

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Re: Reinstalling BreechPlug
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 08:39:00 AM »
Thanks for the input. I have front and rear sights I have made for new barrel. Inletting on stock will not be a problem. I have built 3 rifles - not an expert by any means but I know the basics. This barrel is for a rifle for my son and we originally started it as flint but he decided he would rather have it in percussion. I already had all of the parts I needed laying around but I was concerned about rethreading the barrel. Thanks --Danny

Offline gibster

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Re: Reinstalling BreechPlug
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 05:38:56 PM »
I had a barrel that needed shortening a couple of months ago and took it to a local machine shop.  They cut the breech, drilled and threaded for the plug and it cost me all of $15.00.  I dropped it off in the morning and picked it up later the same day.  All I had to do was the final fitting for the tang to mate with the top flat properly.  This is far less than it would have cost me for a drill bit and taps to do the job myself.  Just a thought.
Gibster