Unmarked with Goulcher lock

[eddillon]

Acquired this via online auction.  No marks except as indicated in subject line.  Haven't removed the barrel from the stock.  Western PA?, Ohio? Indiana?  Help, please.

[smokinbuck]

Doesn't look Ohio to me. That stock says Pennsylvania with the semi roman nose stock  and the lock says later. Just my opinion.
Mark

[eddillon]

I agree with the "later"  Buttplate is what generates my questioning.

[Loudy]

The rifle looks like a Snyder/Union County, PA rifle to me. Compare to some of the Upper Susquehanna rifles in the ALR Library.  Is the entry pipe made from two pieces of brass (pipe & tail) riveted together with a small iron rivet?  This would be strong evidence that the gun was made in Central PA or made by a gunsmith that trained in Central PA.   Is the stock faux striped?  Hard to tell from the photos.  At least a few gunsmiths from the Snyder/Union County area were known to use applied faux striping to make plain straight grained maple look like tiger striped maple. 

Mark Loudenslager

[Don Getz]

Mark.......I purchased an over/under rifle, smoothbore at the KRA show last year.   The guy selling it had it listed as a Joe Long.
It has some Long features, but    It looks a lot like this gun being shown above.    It has the same moon on the cheek piece,
a wear plate on the cheek piece.  It has the same guard that Joe used on his swivel breech guns, appears to have the same
double set triggers that Joe made, same "walking" engraving around both sights.  It has the same Snyder county shape to the
stock and has the same buttplate as is shown above.......a longer extension at the heel than you would see on most Joe Long
guns.   I have never seen an over/under gun like this before by Joe Long.  In looking thru your writings on Joe Long you state
that he had several sons that took up gunmaking.   I keep wondering if perhaps one of the sons may have built this gun?
At the same time as Joe's sons were building some guns, Amos Benfer was doing some over/under guns near Troxelville, about five miles from Joe Long............Don

[eddillon]

The rifle looks like a Snyder/Union County, PA rifle to me. Compare to some of the Upper Susquehanna rifles in the ALR Library.  Is the entry pipe made from two pieces of brass (pipe & tail) riveted together with a small iron rivet?  This would be strong evidence that the gun was made in Central PA or made by a gunsmith that trained in Central PA.   Is the stock faux striped?  Hard to tell from the photos.  At least a few gunsmiths from the Snyder/Union County area were known to use applied faux striping to make plain straight grained maple look like tiger striped maple. 

Mark Loudenslager

There is some natural fiddleback in the buttstock.  The rest of, most of the rest, appears to be faux.  Lots of little pins holding down silver inlays, cheekpiece wear plate and toeplate.  Iron nosecap looks like it has two rivets anchoring it to the forend.

[Loudy]

California eddillon,

Check out the photos in this earlier post... 

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3250.0

Does the entry pipe on your rifle look anything like the one in these photos?

Mark

[eddillon]

California eddillon,

Check out the photos in this earlier post...  

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=3250.0

Does the entry pipe on your rifle look anything like the one in these photos?

Mark

Almost exactly.  I'll check for rivet in the bright light of the morning.  I'll post a photo of the entry pipe.

[eddillon]

Additional photos.
          Muzzle cap copper rivets



         Entry pipe



         No evidence of being a two piece entry pipe.

         Entry pipe

[Loudy]

Oh well.  Still looks Upper Susquehanna to me.  Lots of gun builders learned the trade in that area and took the style to OH, IN, MI, etc.  Without a patchbox or any other distinguishing features it's pretty tough to say for sure where your gun originated.  You might want to take the barrel off the gun.  Sometimes additional clues are hidden on the bottom flats.  A friend of mine acquired a gun recently that had the makers name, city, and a date all nicely engraved on the bottom flat of the rifle.  I've never been so lucky!

Mark

[eddillon]

Removed the barrel from the stock.. No name or other markings under the wood.  Barrel was notched for a front lock bolt.  The lock and the stock were never drilled for a front lock bolt so I guess that the maker used a recycled barrel.  The was plenty of finish remaining on the barrel underneath the wood.  Gave me some insight as to how barrels were finished in the 1840-1860 era.  Looks like it was "blued in a charcoal fire.  The finish was in the notch so I assume that the finish was the work of the second barrel user.

[eddillon]

I have slowly gone through the Upper Susquehanna library.  The more I look, the more I think that the rifle in my possession is by Jos. Long.  Entry thimble-identical.  Lock panel profile-identical.  Moon inlay-identical.  Tang-almost identical.  Brass cheek piece edge-identical.  I am ready for support or challenge.

[Shreckmeister]

A topic I have not seen discussed on this forum is.....with todays testing equipment, shouldn't it be fairly easy albeit costly to determine if two guns were produced by the same tools.  Also I would think it to be fairly simple to confirm that two barrels were rifled with the same machine?  Let's chew on that.

[eddillon]

Alas, Shreckmeister!  Der bore has been freshed und ist smooth.  Comparing Long's transition of nose of comb to wrist-identical.  I'll try to post a photo that clearly shows that trait.

[eddillon]

Alas, Shreckmeister!  Der bore has been freshed und ist smooth.  Comparing Long's transition of nose of comb to wrist-identical.  I'll try to post a photo that clearly shows that trait.

Shreckmeister, here is a photo showing the wrist to nose of comb transition.  Quite Long looking.