A couple of early NC guns

[Dennis Glazener]

A friend of mine has a couple of guns that he asked me about. I told him if he could send me some photos I would post them for you all to see if you could help identify them. Meanwhile here is a description of each:

The first one is a smooth bore musket that is reported to have been use in the Rev War by his NC ancestor: "There is the word "London"  stamped in the lower barrel area along with a symbol."  "There is a symbol with crossed items, from the lower left to the upper right is a scepter, and from the lower right to the upper left is an arrow.  In the upper quadrant is a crown, with an "R" in the lower quadrant.  There is a "B" or an "R" in the left quadrant and a "C" in the right quadrant.  There is another identical symbol without the letters or crown".

The second gun is a Kentucky style pistol. He found this one at a sale on the village green of a small town in Ohio back in the mid-60's.  He said there was a guy there that restored old guns. He bought a pistol that has a rifled barrel and is a percussion that may have once been a flintlock. The metal hardware is original and is nicely made with brass plates in the curly maple stock. Under the hammer is stamped the word "Roller".

The only "Roller" that I thought of was Bob Roller and I wondered if possibly he might have been the restorer and stamped his name on the pistol? Anyone care to hazard a guess to who this "Roller" might have been? Was there an early maker with this same last name?
Dennis

 

[Randy Hedden]

The only "Roller" that I thought of was Bob Roller and I wondered if possibly he might have been the restorer and stamped his name on the pistol? Anyone care to hazard a guess to who this "Roller" might have been? Was there an early maker with this same last name?
Dennis

Dennis,

That would also be the Roller that would naturally come to my mind.  Maybe when you get the pictures they will tell us more and reveal if the lock is a Bob Roller lock or not.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com

[T*O*F]

Bob Roller stamps his locks on the inside now.
Don't know if he ever stamped them on the outside or not

[Sean]

The first one is a smooth bore musket that is reported to have been use in the Rev War by his NC ancestor: "There is the word "London"  stamped in the lower barrel area along with a symbol."  "There is a symbol with crossed items, from the lower left to the upper right is a scepter, and from the lower right to the upper left is an arrow.  In the upper quadrant is a crown, with an "R" in the lower quadrant.  There is a "B" or an "R" in the left quadrant and a "C" in the right quadrant.  There is another identical symbol without the letters or crown".

Sounds like a Birmingham proof mark: crossed scepters, crown above, B on the left, C on the right, P underneath.  If that's correct its a post 1813 proof mark.  See Hanson's "Northwest Gun" page 56...  Here's an online resource on Birmingham proof marks:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/proofmarks.html

Sean

[Dennis Glazener]

Thanks for the information from everyone.

Sounds like the proof marks pretty much takes the Rev War story off the table.
Dennis

[T*O*F]

Dennis,
I contacted Bob Roller about this.  Here's his reply:

Dave.
I made a very few locks for a shop in Texas in the mid
1960's with my name outside and a banner engraved
around it.It was a semi circular pattern.
I have never signed my name under the hammer on any lock and
never put it on any repaired lock.

[Dennis Glazener]

TOF Thanks,
I will have him look at how the name is done. I hope to have some photos later.
Dennis

[Sean]

Dennis,

Still looking forward to seeing that musket.  Never know, parts of it might have been used in the Rev War.  There seems to be a tendency to recycle those muskets through multiple iterations.  Maybe it got a new barrel around the war of 1812.  If they could only talk...

Sean

[Dennis Glazener]

I asked him to try to send photos of the sideplate, if/when I get them I will post them. He did say that at one time it had a metal piece the full length of the barrel. I suspect someone had added an under-rib. Note the hand drawing of the proof marks. He said the barrel has London marked on it.

Here is the musket/fowler ?




Here is the pistol
I suspect its a Bob Roller percussion lock and to me the only original part that I see might be the trigger!

[Dennis Glazener]

Here are three more photos of the gun mentioned in the first post. Hope this might shed some light on what this gun might have been.
Dennis

[rich pierce]

Musket might be a parts gun or an inexpensive imported fowler from 1840-1860.

[Levy]

Dennis:  I agree with Rich.  the 'London' mark near the breech reminds me of a Indian Trade Gun barrel.

James Levy

[Sean]

Hard to tell, but it looks like there might be some lock markings on the fowler.  Might give you an idea of the maker.  Looks like a plain English import fowler maybe 1820-1850.  Very few indian trade guns were halfstocked with ribs.  You'd also expect to see view marks on the barrel and lock of many of them, but not all.

Sean