RCA 52

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
I am going to build a rifle inspired by RCA 52.  I've always loved the lines of that gun and intend to follow them closely for the most part, but I will make some changes to the decorative details that reflect my taste.  I intend to keep things simple befitting the gun and its early styling.  It appears in the photos (RCA Vol 1) that the forestock of the gun in front of the lock has an unusual diamond-shaped cross section.  Can anyone tell me if that is true or is it an artifact of the lighting in photos?  Does anyone know of a source of more photos for this great old gun?

Thanks,

dave  

[greybeard]

Looking foerward to this build. 
Hugs for Bella!!     Bob

[whetrock]

Dave,
This is not a direct answer, as I have not seen this rifle. Like you, I've only seen photos. I do see what you are talking about in figure 52j. But that shadow line does not seem to appear in figure 52d. So I assumed that the line in 52j is just the angle of the light.
I have an old Curt Hemlepp blue print that was based on that rifle. It shows a traditional "egg" shaped cross section ahead of the panels. Hemlepp notes that his drawing is not a measured drawing of the original. So I don't know if he actually saw the original, or was working from photos.
Whet

[smart dog]

Hi,
Thanks Greybeard.  It will be special because I am finally making something for myself.  I don't have a longrifle.  Hugs duly administered.  Bella (Smartdog) has been totally spooked by fireflies.  She never saw them before and does not know what to make of them.  It is really kind of funny because you can see her analyzing too much.  She went with me to Dixon's but the first time they fired the cannon she made a beeline for a food concession trailer and tried to crawl under it.  I think a lot of folks were amused.

Thanks Whetrock, I think I agree.  It may be an illusion from the pointed lock panel molding or the molding may have a ridge that peters out as it blends into the forestock.  It would just be nice to know. 

Thanks again,

dave

[smart dog]

Hi Whetrock,
I received a really helpful e-mail from someone who actually inspected RCA 52.  Indeed, the forestock in front and the wrist in back of the lock panels have slight diamond cross sections that gradually fade out toward the rear thimble and toward the comb; respectively.  That information helps me a lot.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi Folks,
Well, I am on my way toward building this gun inspired by RCA 52.  As I work on it, I have come to realize that it is a great gun.  The architecture is superb, and with the slight changes I made in pull and drop to suit my needs, I cannot praise it too much.  Even George Shumway commented on how well it held and pointed.  Anyway, I am entranced by it.  Every gun I build is a little project akin to experimental archaeology, the discipline in which researchers learn about ancient objects or processes by building them or trying to recreate those processes.  The act of doing yields insights that observational study cannot provide.  Simply put, I am having FUN.  I am beginning to design the decoration and I would appreciate some advice.  I am not going to copy the original decoration because I don't like it very much.  However, I want to decorate it with a style that would be consistent with the style and period of the gun.  To that end, does anyone have opinions on where the gun was made and by whom.  Can you suggest a decorative style.  It seems to me that it is an early Lehigh Valley or Christrian Springs gun.  Would carving and inlay designs from those "schools" be appropriate?  I really would appreciate a discussion about this so I can mull over the data and work on a design.  I appreciate and value your help very, very much.

dave  

[Tom Currie]

Dave, Quite a few years ago there were pictures posted of a almost identical cheek side carving pattern on a Christopher Gumpf gun. I sort of think that was presented by Eric Kettenburg by I am not exactly sure. I have always like the look of this gun also, but wish there was some reliefed carving.

Gumpf was a Lancaster gunsmith and a compemporary of Jacob Dickert ( Kindig ). If you are copying the architecture and looking at carving it differently I would think most any variation on an early sytle double C scroll would be appropriate. 

One thing I notice is the buttplate heel doesn't meet the back plate at a right angle as most Dickert / Lancaster rifles do. The rounded meeting of these 2 parts of the buutplate is more reminiscent of CS / Oerter rifles.  Also the side plate almost matches the Edward Marshall rifle. All this tells me its early as Shumway suggests. The wrist looks heavy as it tapers taller as it nears the comb.

I'd be curious what you don't necessarily like with the existing carving and what you are thinking about.

[Majorjoel]

Hi Dave, I am sure that your skill level just cries out to make the strictly simplistic incised carving into something special with more relief. I find #52 to be a very fine early piece. The rounded curving of the upper butt plate was picked up in a later form I have seen in a couple of Bucks county rifles.  One of my biggest disappointments with "Rifles of Colonial America" besides being in black and white is that George doesn't usually mention anything about the type of wood that was used in most of these pieces. #52 I would guess to have been plain grained maple stocked. But it could be just about anything going from just these photos.  Anyway, Dave, you have a lot of license and leeway here with your build especially with the wooden patchbox cover (as the one shown is a modern replacement). I'm very sure that you will come up with carving ideas that will make the rifle your own!  I look very much forward to seeing what you come up with!      Joel 

[smart dog]

Thanks Tom and Joel,

Tom, I don't like the lock panel and beaver tail on the lock side.  It may be necessary to accommodate the curving lock, but my lock is straighter and I will change the placement of the beaver tail.  I don't like the line extending from the front of the comb to the front of the cheek piece.  It cries out for a little more finesse.  I don't like the single even scroll at the wrist.  It is well executed and probably adheres to "golden mean proportions" but it looks more like the product of an engineer or draftsman rather than an artist.  In my opinion, "golden mean proportions" are guidelines that are most useful when violated.  The incised carving behind the cheek piece fills the space well but it needs tweeking.  The leaf sticking out toward the heel of the buttplate looks like a flag more than a leaf.  My initial feeling is that the design will benefit greatly from a simple mix of low relief and incised carving.  Joel, I will keep the carving simple with deference to the original gun.  Where do you guys think the gun was made?  Architecturally, my impression is that it is somewhat of a hybrid between any of the Oerter guns and Neihart's No. 56. 

Thanks again,

dave

[Tom Currie]

Dave, I agree with almost all your tweaks. It is my opinion also that volutes designed more on the GM poportions are more visually pleasing.

I tried to locate the picture of the very similiar cheek carving posted on a gun signed by Christopher Gumpf many years ago but could not find it. That is not to say this gun is made by Gumpf but at the very least it is related and Gumpf was a early Lancaster maker. The buttplate is very Christian's Spring  like  to specualte that it was made in CS it would need to be more similiar to Abrecht or Oerter signed rifles in my opinion. Quite possible it was made by a Moravian working in early Lancaster circa 1770, there were quite a few working there. Dickert, Gonter, Greaf maybe Gumpf.   

I think a Chambers early germanic lock fits this build well. I like that lock for early guns.

[smart dog]

Thanks Tom,
I am using Davis's early colonial lock that I modified heavily to appear more like the lock on RCA 52.  I originally considered the Chambers lock but I did not want the curved bottom.  It is hard to straighten that curve because of the way the internals fit.  The Davis lock has sufficient excess plate to shape as I want and keep the bottom straighter.  I am also thinning, reshaping, and reducing the size of the flintcock and top jaw a little.  The architecture of RCA 52 does not accommodate a curved lockplate very well, which is why the original has such a funky lockplate surround.  I think your reasoning about location and possible makers is very sound Tom.  Just thinking about this stuff is really fun.

dave

[Tom Currie]

Dave, I get the lock placement on RCA 52 doesn't work real well. I think Dickert nailed it on  RCA 48 by tipping the lock upward at the rear. It doesn't get much better than that for me. For what it's worth this is a pic of 2 rifles I made using  Chambers early Germanic locks and tipping them up as Dickert did. Food for future thought.

[Brookville]

I always liked the looks of that gun. 

If you have a copy of Rosenberger & Kauffman's "Longrifles of Western PA" look at #36,which is attributed to David Morton.  Certainly not the same maker but a similar shape and some common details.

Ron Luckenbill made a nice copy of the Morton gun a few years ago based on his measurements of the original.

[smallpatch]

I see the attraction. I'm in love with the Lehigh mystique myself. There's just "something" about them.
This gun seems to incorporate traits of both Lehigh and Bucks guns. Rightfully so. Proximity being what it was. The simple incised carving of Bucks, and very similar carving layout to the Lehigh again seem to verify that as well.
My suggestion.....keep it simple, (it's a simple gun)  and try to stay within those two styles.

It's a simple, yet elegant gun. It's all about architecture.
Keep us posted! Looking forward to this one!

[rich pierce]

I've always loved this gun too but someone who handled it told me they were not as impressed when they held it in person.  But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and for me, early guns with strong architecture and mysterious origins are right in my wheelhouse!

[Tom Currie]

Dave, What do you have for a buttplate and trigger guard ?

[smart dog]

Thank you all for responding.  This is very helpful.  Tom, those are beauties!!! Wonderful work.  My lock still has a slight curve on the bottom and I did exactly as you described.  I tipped it nose down a little to raise the tail closer to center on the wrist.  Tom, if you like RCA 48 then I think you are going to really like what I did.  Dane, I agree with your assessment and I think I am leaning that way for the carving.  I am thinking of adapting the carving behind the cheek piece on the Edward Marshall rifle and simplifying the tang carving on the Valentine Beck (not copying either but using them as guides).  The carving would mix incised and low relief.  The relief would and be a bit flat with only a bare minimum of detail.  Think how good cartoonists convey a lot of feeling with just a few simple lines.  That would be my goal.  Bob Lienemann sent me some wonderful information about this gun and its quirks.  I am going to try and incorporate most of those distinct features.  I modified the stock to better fit me (more drop, slightly shorter LOP), which was a challenge because I did not want to lose the wonderful shape. I had to make small incremental changes in drop all the way down the butt stock so that the original proportions and appearance are preserved.  I think when you folks see it, you won't even notice the greater drop.  As I build it, I am loving the feel of this gun more than most I have made in the past.  I think I will be able to shoot this one really well.

Thanks again everyone.  I would love to keep this conversation going because I am learning a lot.

dave

[smart dog]

Hi Tom,
I am using an early Bethlehem butt plate from TOW.  It is sand cast with enough extra material for me to "beat the living !#$*" out of it and get something close to RCA 52.  It has the proper rounded profile at the heel.  I plan to use the guard for the Edward Marshall rifle but with the forward extension reshaped. The forward and rear extensions will have curved ends capped by a little button.  The hand rail and bow of the Edward Marshall guard is the best I have seen for this gun.  I've already inlet the butt plate but if you have a different suggestion for the guard, do tell.  I am all ears. Take care Tom and thanks.

dave

[Tom Currie]

Dave, The Marshall guard is a good choice, the grip rail is almost identical.  I have one in my drawer waiting for another big gun project.

If you like building big early guns, Reeves Goerhing's Jack Haugh pattern early guard is what I used in the pics above ( double spur removed ). I know Rich Pierce has also used it several times on nice builds. It's a nice one to have in your parts drawer.  It's about the same size as the Marshall guard.
Those 2 guards are about as big as it gets.

I'll look forward to some pics of your progress.

[Dan Fruth]

Hi Dave...This is a great rifle, and should be a fun project. You might email dorothy Shumway. She will sell you scans of the rifle that George had collected, and they are very helpful when trying to see details. I have used them in the past, and can enhance them on my computer to see otherwise cloudy areas. Also, take a close look at the carving on the cheek side, and you will see someone started to cut away the background on the big scroll, then stopped. I have always wondered when this might have happened, but have no clues as of yet.

  Best regards..........Dan

[RichG]

I too like the look of this rifle. I tend to like the early plain guns witch rely on good proportions and not embellishments. Longrifles of note by Shumway has a description and some photos of this gun. He says the wood is plain maple.

[smart dog]

Thanks Dan.  I will get in touch with her. 

Rich, I am using a figured blank of dense red maple not a plain stock.  I am not doing a bench copy just an inspired copy and since the carving will be simple, figured red maple should not compete with the decoration very much.  I prefer plainer maple on a gun that is to be carved and inlayed more extensively and on which the carving has more detail.  However, the decoration on this gun will be simple although the architecture is anything but simple. 

dave