Breech plug tang extension

[Nordnecker]

This is for a Southern mountain type rifle. I have a standard tapered breech plug installed in the barrel. The barrel is inlet, but not the whole tang. I have made a long lollipop type extention that continues up the comb a little. The extention is not welded to the BP tang yet.
I practiced inletting just the extension (into a scrap) and realized a few things.
#1  My screw hole (on the wrist) was too close to the curve of the comb.
#2 I need to change the draft angle after the screw hole and up the comb so that it is on the same plane as the rest of the extension.
These 2 problems are sort of the same and I think I've tweeked/ filed it into the right position.
So, my questions are these:

Is it necessary to weld/ join the 2 pieces together and inlet it all as one from the breech backwards?
Or is it OK to leave them as 2 pieces, inlet towards each other and overlapped/ joined flush on top, letting the BP tang (and bolt) hold the upper part of the extension down? This would make it a little easier to remove the barrel, at least while building the gun.

Any sage advice greatly appreciated.

[Bob Roller]

What do you mean by a tapered breech plug?Is it a pipe thread or?

Bob Roller

[Nordnecker]

Sorry. The thread isn't tapered, the rear extension of the breech plug tang is tapered.

[Mike Brooks]

All of that type that I have seen are one piece and inletted all at one time.

[g rummell]

Check out the ALR Virtual Museum, there's a two piece tang on one of the Soddy Daisy's.

[PPatch]

I've looked into this and only found one tutorial which I did not save a link to (can't find it right now). In that tutorial it was done from the breech backwards and up over the comb and beyond. And that is why I have not yet attempted one, looks like a very daunting procedure, especially getting it up and over the comb, achieving the correct bends at the correct places. plus you have that larger wrist inlay (forget the proper term) and wood screw to deal with before getting to the comb. That will move to the rear slightly as you inlet so you have to deal with it - I do remember too that the inlay for the screw has to be beveled "just so," and steeper than you might think to work.

Sorry, I know that wasn't a lot of help to you. I will look again for that tutorial.

Found it: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=8143.0

I like your idea of coming at it from both directions. I can't think of a reason not to try that, clever. Of course your joint would have to be perfect which shouldn't be that big of a deal. So, I'll be following this thread to see if anyone has a practical objection to doing it that way.

dave

Flinchrocket: Thanks, that was it. I was looking in the woodworking area...

[flinchrocket]

        Over the comb tang - Ken G ( tutorial  metal shaping page 1) is that what you were looking
         For PPatch

[David Rase]

Nordnecker,
Years ago I built an Alford Duncan rifle with a one piece tang that went all the way to the buttplate.  After doing that one time, been there, done that, got the Tee shirt, I decided to build my Gillespie with a 2 piece tang.  If you look at the first picture you can see the seam between the lower tang screw boss and the extension.  In the second picture you can see where the extension meets up with the butt plate return.  In the third picture you can see the over the comb tang.  There is a hook on each end and a tab in the center to pin it.  Don't know if it is HC and I don't really care.  All I know is that it was way simpler and looks just as nice, IMHO.
David

[PPatch]

Very nice Dave

dp

[Nordnecker]

Oh Boy! I couldn't wait to get up and check this out this morning. Thanks, everyone, for your input.
Dave, That's some impressive hardware and work. Love that brass grip rail on the iron trigger guard.
Ppatch and Flinch, Thanks for the link. I sure found out about the draft of the screw boss yesterday. It moved back and left a gap just like KenG described. Good thing it was only a scrap.
Grummel, I had looked at the Soddys but hadn't noticed the 2 piece tang.

One thing I'm noticing is (it seems) most of these extensions are parallel sided, not tapered. I guess this would help with the gap where it "creeps" while being inlet.

So, since I don't have enough confidence to proceed with yesterday's tang. I think I'll make a new one today.

In the tutorial, someone mentioned Elisha Bull. I've looked in the virtual library and tried to do a search and came up with nothing. I'd like to see some of his work. I'll try again.

[flinchrocket]

A google search - Elisha Bull rifle - should show a link to Tennessee rifles,  American Society of Arms
Collectors in PDF format. Good article on tenn rifles. Has Elisha Bull and John Bull.

   David,I truly admire your work. Nice hardware and superb inletting.

[WadePatton]

Check out the ALR Virtual Museum, there's a two piece tang on one of the Soddy Daisy's.

Thanks for reminding me where i saw that.  I had losted my way.

Methinks the function of the full-tang is not impaired by a proper two-piece.  But you don't see many done that way.

I've seen replication done with a full tang behind a hooked breech.  That really simplifies bbl in/out, but may have no historic merit.

The flared extension-i grind away, show the tang who is boss!  (and then be humbled by the inletting).