Finish on Wrought Iron

[David R. Pennington]

I was wondering about metal finish on real wrought iron, (pretty grainy stuff). This rifle I am working on will have a forged wrought buttplate and triggergaurd. How does real wrought finish in relation to mild steel? I need to make a patchbox lid also. Should I hammer out a piece of wrought to right thickness or just use mild steel? Any thoughts?

[James Wilson Everett]

David,

I am a little confused on the question.  Are you asking "how does W.I. smooth and polish and shine up relative to steel."  Or are you asking "how does W.I. color, brown, blue relative to steel."

I have not noticed any difference in how W.I. polishes relative to steel.  If anything, W.I. is easier to polish, but certainly not a big difference.

There is a difference in how W.I. takes color, it is really a lot more rust resistant than steel.  You know, breath twice on steel and it turns bright orange overnight.  Sometime W.I. can be a bit more "interesting" to brown or blue when compared to steel.  I think that a neat way to color treat W.I. is to leave it bright.  It is not that difficult to keep it bright, but eventually it will brown over the years.  Another way is to temper color or heat color the iron to get an interesting brown - purple - blue color.

If you decide to leave it bright, you can always brown the piece later.

Jim

[Mark Elliott]

I polish and finish wrought iron mounts just like steel mounts.   I haven't noticed any particular difference in the finish.  The slag tends to disappear with fine filing and polishing.   

[pbigham]

 I have been told to turn wrought iron into something thin enough to make a patchbox.  You would have to keep folding and welding it to keep it from splitting that it would be mild steel by the time your done. This is what I have told.  Iam Interested In what others have to say.

[David R. Pennington]

I just was wondering mostly about how it would color in comparison with mild steel, and what is the best type of finish. How it browns, or if rust blue is option, or how did they do it back then? Leaving it bright might be an option but what would I do with the barrel?

[Mark Elliott]

I have been told to turn wrought iron into something thin enough to make a patchbox.  You would have to keep folding and welding it to keep it from splitting that it would be mild steel by the time your done. This is what I have told.  Iam Interested In what others have to say.

I always use 16Ga 1018 for my patchboxes.   However,  I see no reason I couldn't hammer out wrought this thin as long as I keep it hot enough.    I think the problem that people have with wrought is that they just don't work it hot enough.   It should be yellow when you are working it,  when it turns red,  it needs to go back in the fire.   If you are gong to be bending along the grain in any way,   it needs to be white hot, just short of welding temp,  coming out of the forge.   

By working wrought iron, including folding and welding,  all you are doing is working slag out.    You will end up with purer, softer, iron.    A certain amount of slag is required for strength in wrought  iron.  You have to put carbon into the iron to get steel.   That is not going to happen by working it.  Of course a lot depends on why quality of wrought iron you have to start.   There are generally three grades; 1st run, 2nd run, and 3rd run.   I have some 3rd run rounds that I save for internal lock parts and barrels.   The rest of my wrought is primarily 2nd run that had been worked into finished consumer goods such as fences and wagon tires.    The worst wrought I have has been salvaged from bridges and is most certainly 1st run.

I read somewhere that part of the reason the plates on the Titanic unzipped the way they did was that the architect had called for 2nd run iron in the rivets and what the supplier sent was 1st run.   The rivets were more brittle than they should have been and the heads just popped off under the stress of the impact with the iceberg.   You knew that there had to be someone making an extra buck in that disaster didn't you?  Although to be fair, there was lot of blame to go around.  It wasn't just the rivets.   A disaster usually requires a whole lot of things to go wrong at the same time.

   

[flinchrocket]

I think if I wanted to make a patch box lid from wrought iron I would find someone with a trip hammer.
Have it folded and welded a few times, then use a flattener to smooth it up, then as mark said keep it just
below welding temp to make your hinge.

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

Folding and rewelding W.I. to get a more refined material does not make the W.I. become mild steel.  Neither does it make a significant reduction in the percentage of slag in the W.I.  What it does do is make the slag strings so very fine, thin and numerous that they are difficult to see without acid etching and magnification.  This is what Mark is talking about 3rd run, A.K.A. treble fine, A.K.A. triple refined, it is what we always look for but rarely find.  Mark, I can help you if you have any excess!!  If you look for old wagon wheel, get ahold of the wheel hub bands (not the tires), they tend to be abut 1/8 thick, 3 wide, 20 long (unrolled that is) and great for a buttplate.  For my W.I. triggerguards the raw material in old blacksmith tong handles is about right to start with.  Flattening out a wagon wheel tire sounds like a lot of work.

Personally, I like to see some slag stings in the metal to show that "that ain't store-bought!"  So, leave it bright so nobody would mistake the buttplate and triggerguard for a catalog item that everyone else uses.  If folks don't see the slag strings, then educate them.  Have fun on the project and fire up the forge.  Show us the photos, too.

Jim

[David R. Pennington]

I have been poking around in my travels and picking up odd bits of wrought stock where I find it. I bought two wagon tires the other day and a pile of old forged iron that looks like hardware off an old oil or gas well rig. I got some long 1/2" rod the other day that I'm using for triggergaurd.
Right now I'm out of coal and I am out of patience with the little rivet forge. Just not enough depth in the pot to keep good welding heat for wrought iron stuff, but man does that wrought like to weld when you can get enough heat. I have a beautiful massive tuyre iron to go in my dream forge some day but first I need to get a roof over it! I finally got both pieces of my trigger guard forged out, just need to do some file work and join them together.

[flinchrocket]

I saw a forge the other day made from a brake drum. If I can find one big enough I'm going to set it
in the middle of the one I have now to make it deeper.
 Waiting to see your pictures,

[David R. Pennington]

[[URL=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/DavidPflint/media/IMG_2379_zpse248ab2b.jpg.html]IMG]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff510/DavidPflint/IMG_2380_zpsf6dbfb94.jpg[/IMG][/URL]



Here are a couple pictures of my triggergaurd in progress beside a piece of the parent stock and the buttplate beside a piece of the stuff it came from. Here are some of the parts assembled so far and my story board I lay beside the forge for a pattern.

[Mark Elliott]

James,

The wagon wheel tire is some work, but not that bad with my favorite 4lb hammer.   It starts about 5/16" and I like it about 3/16" to cut my blanks for the butt pieces.   I never thought about recycling old tongs into guards.   I have an old heavy piece of junk that would be perfect for that.  As to the third run,  that is being saved for barrels. 

[James Wilson Everett]

David,

Thanks for the photos of your work.  I think that the parts look very good, leave the slag lines showing.  It is wonderful to see some excellent forge work.  Keep it up!

Jim

[flinchrocket]

David that is some nice work.I assume that you copper brazed the buttpeice? While looking at your
photobucket pictures I noticed that your forge is about the same size as mine. A few inches deeper
would help the fire quite a bit. Have you ever made your own charcoal from hardwood or do
you use coal all the time? I was thinking I would try to make my charcoal just to see how well
it would work.

[David R. Pennington]

I have not made any charcoal. At one of the ALR meetings the resident Blacksmith there at the fort showed me how they made theirs on site. It is quite a long process and takes several days. It takes a lot more charcoal to do the same amount of forging as coal, but the fire is cleaner. The big difference for me is getting used to the sparks. With the charcoal the sparks go crazy when you put the air to the fire. You learn to back up when you blow the fire. I have access to some good coal. I have a friend who goes to the mine yearly and buys coal and I help him sack it up. He gives me a good deal on it, but I just need to go pick up some more.

[David R. Pennington]

Oh and thanks for the encouraging words guys, maybe I should post some pictures of my disasters and blow outs along with the successes.

[Robby]

Nice stuff David, inspiring!!! Why couldn't WI be finished like you would an old CI frying pan? Seems like it would be a nice patina with some rust protection.
Robby

[David R. Pennington]

The joint in the BP is brazed with brass wire that is bent to shape and laid into the curve with the  BP inverted on the forge fire. Of course the pieces are cleaned and pinned together and fluxed. I usually use two or three pieces of wire to make sure I get a good fill. I haven't tried copper but I guess it would work.