What size mill would you recommend?

[Rolf]

Of course the bigger the better. But there are practical limits to size I can manage to drag down the stairs and onto the cellar. I want do use the mill to make triggers, furniture, percussion breeches, locks etc. What mills/ mill sizes would you recommend?

Best regards
Rolf

[Scota4570]

Bigger than you can carry by muscle power into the basement.   

I have an "Index"  knee mill.  It has about 12" of travel.  It is made of cast iron, pre WW-2.  I brought it to my house with a trailer and made a gantry to unload it using a chain hoist.  I would guess it at 1200-pounds assembled.  It is still not rigid enough. 

I would suggest a full sized Bridgeport.   They are cheaper than I would expect because they are being replaced with fancy new CNC machines.  You don't want to be tracking chips up the stairs and into the household carpet,  the chips 'will cut your feet.   I suggest the biggest machine you can fit in your garage.   Have it delivered. 

[SuperCracker]

Have you looked at any of the mill/lathe combo machines?  I have a Smithy Granite. I haven't done much gun related machining on it but used it for years when I was racing every weekend. It's paid for itself several times over.

[mattdog]

I worked at a place where we had a benchtop model.  Light enough that two healthy men could lift it.  We bolted it down on a hefty bench made of 6x6's.  It worked fine for small stuff related to the log home industry.  It was fine for making one-of's, not a production machine like my Bridgeport.    Not too expensive either.  It was a JET, do a Google search for "Jet brand bench top milling machine".  I found it but wasn't able to cut and paste the address here. I'm sure it would do fine on breech plugs and triggers etc.   

As mentioned in an earlier post, Bridgeport machines have come down in price because they are largely become obsolete.  But they are BIG, HEAVY.  Not something I would want to put in a basement. I've upgraded mine with DRO for repeatability but that wasn't cheap either.  I think DRO (digital read out) can be installed on most any machine.  A tech at JET would know.     

[Bob Roller]

Have you looked at any of the mill/lathe combo machines?  I have a Smithy Granite. I haven't done much gun related machining on it but used it for years when I was racing every weekend. It's paid for itself several times over.

 I am skeptical of the lathe/mill combinations of the home work shop type.
 They don't seem to have a ridged base to support the rigidity mandated by
milling operations.

Bob Roller

[CMS3900]

Generally the heavier the machine, the more accurate as it is less affected by outside factors like temperature, humidity, dust, ect..

If you have to go the bench top route your looking at mills in the $1000-1500 range with no DRO for brands like the Taig Mills or the MicroLux/Grizzly/Import Mills.
A Jet or similar with a DRO will be in the 3-4k range.  The Tormach is also out there, but I don't think it is what your looking for.

A full size knee mill is the better route if can fit it someplace else. A nice Wells-Index or J Head Bridgeport with a DRO can be bought for 5k or less, some even CNC equipped.  This would give you a ton of machine for basically the same price as a new benchtop with dro. I would stay away from the mill/lathe combos as bob said.  You are much better off with either a bench or floor mill and a small lathe like a south-bend, atlas, ect.



 

[jerrywh]

 Since you are limited I would suggest you look at the mill drills offered by Enco. They are basically the same as the harbor freight or the grizzly but I like enco because they have fast delivery and a super reputation. 

[Acer Saccharum]

Rolf, you definitely need a vertical mill.

I know of an early Bridgeport with a round ram that could be had, but it's here in the US.

The combination lathes and mills are a concept that appeals to someone with limited space and a tight budget. Unfortunately, the ones I have seen are complete junk. The sliding fits are terrible, the tapped holes are oversized, the screws are undersized. Speed changes and gear changes can be awkward. Machine change-overs can be so inconvenient you don't want to go back and forth between lathe and mill. It's critical to check how close you can get the mill spindle nose to the vise. The mill column should be AT LEAST 3 1/2" in diameter for rigidity.

[jerrywh]

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

[Acer Saccharum]

I'm also happy to look over what you're considering. just send me the link.

The Enco that Jerry mentions is a good machine. Note that on round column machines, the head moves side to side when you are raising or lowering the head, and you lose your precise location. You can move the head up or down, and re-locate your part, not a big deal.

[CMS3900]

Totally forgot Enco, +1 from here as well to them, I have run a bunch of Enco lathes and they work well.  There are just so many manufacturers out there, and just because somethings made in Japan, China, ect.. doesn't immediately make it a poor machine, there are a lot of machines made specifically for certain resellers with tight quality control.   

I thought of MSC as well http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/?searchAheadTerm=Mill+Drill&searchAhead=true&hdrsrh=true&typahddsp=Mill+Drill+Machines&navid=12107602

Dayton, Baileigh, Proxxon are out there as well with "Mill Drill Machines" 

[Bob Roller]

Generally the heavier the machine, the more accurate as it is less affected by outside factors like temperature, humidity, dust, ect..

If you have to go the bench top route your looking at mills in the $1000-1500 range with no DRO for brands like the Taig Mills or the MicroLux/Grizzly/Import Mills.
A Jet or similar with a DRO will be in the 3-4k range.  The Tormach is also out there, but I don't think it is what your looking for.

A full size knee mill is the better route if can fit it someplace else. A nice Wells-Index or J Head Bridgeport with a DRO can be bought for 5k or less, some even CNC equipped.  This would give you a ton of machine for basically the same price as a new benchtop with dro. I would stay away from the mill/lathe combos as bob said.  You are much better off with either a bench or floor mill and a small lathe like a south-bend, atlas, ect.



 

 My vertical mill is a knee mill.It's a Clausing 8520 I bought new in 1967 and purpose bought for
lock and trigger work and other small jobs.The company is still in business and parts are available
if needed.Not cheap but this level of American quality never has been.
Years ago,I made tooling for a bench top mill to recondition aluminum oil pump housings for some
kind of Japanese automatic transmission then trained a mechanic to run it for the shop and it worked
for years..

Bob Roller

[ehoff]

If you cant swing a full size Bridgeport and you are going the mill/drill route I will make the following recommendation. Look at either a square column model such as the Grizzly G0759 or a small knee mill such as the Grizzly G3102. I have a round column Grizzly mill/drill and would up grade in a minute. The problem with the round column mills is that you loose registry every time you raise and lower the head. The quill is used for the z-axis feed and getting good accuracy takes some work. Also you can't tilt the head if you need to do any angle work.

[WadePatton]

Two works: three-phase.

More words: but wait, yeah, that's not going down stairs into a cellar...


If the cellar is the only option maybe you consult with riggers in order to determine exactly how much machine they can move into the space.  The bigger machines go reasonable because the size and power considerations limit the buyers.

I happen to have recently acquired a 25kw 3-phase genset, so I'll be able to run mine* off-grid (without phase conversion contraption).  I'm also going to run my homestead that way...whoops wandering way offa that there topic.

*it's yet a figment of imagination.

BUYing used, be sure to get as many/much accessories as possible with it.  Tooling makes the tools.  Of course dealers strip all this away to sell separately but buying from the previous user will usually net you a lot of goodie goods they no longer have use for.

[Rolf]

I'm also happy to look over what you're considering. just send me the link.

The Enco that Jerry mentions is a good machine. Note that on round column machines, the head moves side to side when you are raising or lowering the head, and you lose your precise location. You can move the head up or down, and re-locate your part, not a big deal.

At the moment these two are main choices

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X3-Mill/SIEG-Super-X3-HiTorque-Mill

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/champion-20v-mill-3992-p.asp

They are sold in Norway, so I don't have import them myself. The Seig mill is the one I really want. But I'd have to take it apart to get it down the stairs.
The Chester mill can be carried in one piece, but is it big enough for what I want to do?

Best regards
Rolf

[44-henry]

I have four Bridgeports in our lab and love them, but have been experimenting with a Little Machine Shop Mini mill with a belt drive as a way to add more mills to our lab to teach basic machining concepts to larger classes of students. Fact is I have seen Bridgeports sell for about the same price as these, but they take up a lot more space. This mini mill uses the popular R8 tooling and I have been pretty impressed with its capability. Since it has a dovetailed column it does not have the shortcomings of round column mill drills, plus it has enough weight and rigidity to be useful in steel with reasonable cuts. For the small work that you mention it should work fine.

[Acer Saccharum]

Those little mini mills have a substantial column, and the head travels on a dovetail slide. That's one of the best arrangements I've seen for a table top mill.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I'm also happy to look over what you're considering. just send me the link.

The Enco that Jerry mentions is a good machine. Note that on round column machines, the head moves side to side when you are raising or lowering the head, and you lose your precise location. You can move the head up or down, and re-locate your part, not a big deal.

At the moment these two are main choices

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-Super-X3-Mill/SIEG-Super-X3-HiTorque-Mill



http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/champion-20v-mill-3992-p.asp

They are sold in Norway, so I don't have import them myself. The Seig mill is the one I really want. But I'd have to take it apart to get it down the stairs.
The Chester mill can be carried in one piece, but is it big enough for what I want to do?

Best regards
Rolf

Of the two you referenced I'd go with the Seig mill with the R8 head - go the extra effort and you will be happier. I have a Grizzly knee mill and I am glad I did not buy a combo or bench top round column machine.

[Brian Jordan]

Have you looked at any of the mill/lathe combo machines?  I have a Smithy Granite. I haven't done much gun related machining on it but used it for years when I was racing every weekend. It's paid for itself several times over.

 I am skeptical of the lathe/mill combinations of the home work shop type.
 They don't seem to have a ridged base to support the rigidity mandated by
milling operations.

Bob Roller

I totally agree!