large bore Lehigh?

[greenchile]

I've been told that Lehigh style guns are not suited to large calibers because of the geometry, any opinions? I"d really like that combination as a hunting rifle.

GREENCHILE

[Stophel]

A Lehigh gun that is built RIGHT is fine for any caliber.  However, there are few that do so, in my opinion.

[Maalsral]

Go to Allen Martin's website and look at his Gallery. You will see several big bore Lehighs.

[E.vonAschwege]

Greg - I it really depends how you shoot them and what the original design is.  Some Lehighs shoot great, others not so much.  Of the plans I have available, the Kuntz would be the best for a .54, as the Rupp and Moll guns have very high combs, and those are drawn exactly from the profile of the original 18th century arms.  If you can make it to some shows, I recommend shouldering some Lehigh guns and then comparing that feel to a straighter stock gun.  It can definitely be done, you just might hit your face a little too  . 
-Eric

[jim moore]

I have a Allen Martin Lehigh schimmel .62 cal. 48" Getzs barrel. Its a pleasure to shoot. Shooting 90grs 2FF
.610 rb  .020 deer tallow lubed patch. No check thump, keep head and neck straight up lightly let the wood kiss the check and let her rip.  

[smallpatch]

I own the "Busty Brunette", another one of Al's masterpieces. While it's only a 50, it wouldn't matter if it was a 75.  It's just built right!!!

[Gaeckle]

Greg - I it really depends how you shoot them and what the original design is.  Some Lehighs shoot great, others not so much.  Of the plans I have available, the Kuntz would be the best for a .54, as the Rupp and Moll guns have very high combs, and those are drawn exactly from the profile of the original 18th century arms.  If you can make it to some shows, I recommend shouldering some Lehigh guns and then comparing that feel to a straighter stock gun.  It can definitely be done, you just might hit your face a little too  . 
-Eric

When you say "some shoot great, some not so much" , why is that? Is that due the curve and comb combination?

[Stophel]

The best designed Lehigh guns (generally the earliest) have relatively little drop at the butt, and are fairly "straight", despite the visual curvature.  Ok, the straight, level wrist takes getting used to, but otherwise handle well!  Many later Lehigh guns (like so many later guns from everywhere else) have way too much drop in the butt, accentuated by the curves, and I would not even care to try to shoot one!  I wouldn't be able to see the sights anyway with such a ridiculous amount of drop, no matter what caliber.

The cheek area should be relatively level and straight and in normal position, with any curve being behind  (curving down to the buttplate), and ahead (curving down to the nose of the comb).  It should not "hump up" towards your face (though I have seen old guns that do... ugh!).  Basically, your face should not be able to tell that the comb is curved.  

This gun I did has much more drop in the butt than guns I normally do, but I managed to make it work out well, and it handles and points and shoots very nicely.  Notice that there's really not all that much curve in the comb anyway.  And it's a .54 caliber rifle, so it's not a little squirrel gun!  It takes VERY careful cheekpiece shaping (all guns do... I am a cheekpiece fanatic!) to get it all to work right, but it can be done.

[Gaeckle]

So....typically speaking, the Lehigh style guns sport what sort of lock, swamped barrel I would suppose, what sort of hardware? What goes into making one of these? I've never made one, but just may at some point....

[rich pierce]

Very general question.  Lehighs span a long period if you consider the years the early makers worked and how long the style lasted.  So I'd look at our contemporary masters for a general view.  Find Allen Martin and  Eric Kettenberg's websites for starters.
http://www.allenmartinrifles.net/
http://www.erickettenburg.com/Site/Home.html

Then you might want to go see what a young feller has been up to.
http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/lehigh-valley-rifles.html

[rich pierce]

I've been told that Lehigh style guns are not suited to large calibers because of the geometry, any opinions? I"d really like that combination as a hunting rifle.

GREENCHILE

Think about going with an earlier Lehigh "roots" rifle.

[greenchile]

Rich,

Can you expand on this?     Think about going with an earlier Lehigh "roots" rifle.

Greenchile

[rich pierce]

Yes.  There are a couple guns that come to mind as early roots Lehigh guns.  One is a very early rifle.  Some date it 1770s but there is nothing on ere that could not even date a decade earlier.  George Shumway write an article about this rifle and later Lehigh sled rifles that had similar signatures in Muzzle Blasts July 1996.  "A case of Lehigh Vellay longrifle evolution". It has a wooden patchbox, an early guard with the rail far from the wrist and a reverse spur, and is masterful.  Allen Martin made a rifle based on this one but it is no longer on his website.  If anyone is truly interested I can send a scan of the article. 

Shumway also wrote an article about a robust early plain rifle in November 1993.  This also has an early guard with a sling swivel hole, a broad buttplate, and the sideplate is like one of Oerter's rifles.  No carving but a sliding wooden patchbox.  If anyone wanted a distinctive Revolutionary War era plain rifle clearly from eastern Pennsylvania, this is a good place to start.  The curved buttstock is pre-Lehigh.

Next, consider rifle #52 in Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America volume 1.  It has a curved buttstock but is a very substantial rifle.

[E.vonAschwege]

The cheek area should be relatively level and straight and in normal position, with any curve being behind  (curving down to the buttplate), and ahead (curving down to the nose of the comb).  It should not "hump up" towards your face (though I have seen old guns that do... ugh!).  Basically, your face should not be able to tell that the comb is curved.  

That's a very important element - if the comb is still rising up ahead of your cheek (a hump of sorts), then when you shoot the gun with a heavy load, it can recoil back and hit your cheek bone.  This is why I say some Lehigh guns following original patterns aren't as suitable in larger calibers.  For more info, I have a series of notes I've written for those building Lehigh guns, available here:  http://www.neahkahnieflintlocks.com/lehigh-valley-details.html  Good luck. 
-Eric

[rich pierce]

Eric's got some very detailed plans for sale also.  I've got a set.